28th Hong Kong Film Award nominations

Hi
28th Hong Kong Film Awards
Congratulations - Best Film Nominations & Winner
THE WAY WE ARE
RED CLIFF
CJ7
PAINTED SKIN
IP MAN

Congratulations - Best Actor Nominations & Winner
Louis Koo (RUN PAPA RUN)
Simon Yam (SPARROW)
Tony Leung (RED CLIFF)
Nick Cheung (WITNESS)
Donnie Yen (IP MAN)

Congratulations - Best Action Director Nominations & Winner
Sammo Hung (THE THREE KINGDOMS: RESURRECTION OF THE DRAGON)
Corey Yuen (RED CLIFF)
Li Chi-chung (CONNECTED)
Stephen Tung (PAINTED SKIN)
Sammo Hung (IP MAN)

Hello, I'm an American who is watched her fair share of martial arts movies and this is a very interesting debate that is being played out. Allow me to have some sort of input. (Don't hurt me...)

I have watched all of the movies that you are talking about: Once Upon a Time in China 1 through 3, Jackie Chan movies- early days to current, Bruce Lee Movies- I have all of them, and most of Donnie Yen's Movies including Ip Man.

First off, I think the discussion should be shifted away from Jackie Chan, because he's a completely different kind of actor, choreographer, and fighter than Donnie Yen. Jackie Chan relies on comedy, timing, and stunts and acrobatics, and when he gets to the core of martial arts- such as his earlier days- then we see magic, but it's rare, I must admit when it's highlighted. Donnie Yen is the opposite who incorporates in every GOOD Donnie Yen movie that I've seen core martial arts (as in the main focus is his martial arts movements, not too much the acrobatics or the stunts) and when he does incorporate comedy, timing and acrobatics it's pretty decent. Jackie Chan is more show and drama. Donnie Yen is more cool reserved artistic and martial arts performance. Two are very respectable and very good actors, however within such different realms it's truly hard to compare. They are two completely different people.

There movies, when they are in the director or in the choreographer's seat are entirely different focus showcased. Jackie Chan builds on his stunts in his action scenes, the more crazy, dynamic, useful of props the better. Donnie Yen builds on the martial arts ability and sometimes even the story. The care and commitment that each put into their movies is well-regarded, but a focus on two different things. So how can I say that Donnie Yen's Hero was better than Jackie's Rumble in the Bronx? Two great movies, yet different and difficult to compare.

Also, if you want to compare two actors, I would compare Donnie Yen and Jet Li who have similar dispositions and intent in their movies to highlight a martial arts as an art form. Thus, it would be suitable to compare Fearless and Ip Man. Now, I loved both movies with an awe and admiration of two idols (yes Donnie Yen is becoming my idol) who have taken care, time, and devotion to portray two legends. Liberties have been taken with storylines and plots, so you can't argue against the two. Though Fearless's story was more emotional and entertaining, Ip Man's felt much more real and authentic. When it comes to portrayal of the legends themselves, Donnie Yen had a serious advantage with Ip Chun as the consultant in the movie to guide Yen on his father's mannerisms and beliefs. Fearless seemed more like an extravagant homage.

When it comes to emotions portrayed in a movie, emotions doesn't necessarily convey importance or strength to a movie's story. Emotion may get the audience to feel what you want them to feel but that doesn't mean that they feel it as effectively or as strong. Ip Man was naturally cool and reserved, but you could see the pain, anguish, or happiness and gratitude of the situations clearly in Donnie Yen. I would say the best scene was talking to his wife in the small apartment when he was saying he felt "useless because all he knew was kungfu" Also his wife, was truly good at being the strong rock behind him. She truly held out until the end, and when she finally let go and conveyed her emotion for her husband, you felt it.

As far as track record, you are right, Donnie Yen does seem a bit one-note. Jet Li, I would say is one of the most dynamic actors in the martial arts world, because I've seem comedy, drama, action, and aloof sentiment in several of his movies and he commits wonderfully. However, I believe that Donnie Yen playing an Ip Man character, calm and collected yet with clear unmatchable force and highlighting a particular style of (Wing Chun), he does it better.

Thus, I truly believe that he deserves this Academy Award.

Another note, talent does not automatically mean that they are where they are supposed to be. Donnie Yen, for a long time, was one of those underdog martial arts actors who didn't get his time in the sun because of Jackie Chan and Jet Li's monopoly, however, he's hitting stride. There are probably many more talented martial arts actors BETTER than Jackie Chan and Jet Li and Donnie Yen who have not had their time. (yes I said it). You never know, it's about WHO you know and WHERE they can take you. Jackie Chan, Jet Li Sammo Hung, and Donnie Yen lucked out. It's also about committment and hard work which all of them have.

Right now, I think it's time for Donnie Yen to take the main stage. Let him enjoy it.

If you say so...

fair do's, thats ur view and i have mines. End of the day when pple look bck at all the best martial art actors Donnie will not b one of them

"All am trying to say is that ur biased in your views towards him."

I already said that Donnie used to be a bad actor. And just to add more, he's done BAD movies as well with bad acting, direction and production values. I could go on if you want to :)

"U make it sound like Jackie, Sammo and Biao got handed their frame on a gold plate, these guys worked hard to become what they are now, Jackie has make a lot of low budget movies using dangerous stuff to do his stunts. Plus these guys where not famous for their kung fu but more for their stunts, comedy, and fight sence. Donnie was not famous back than becos he could compete with them in any level, all he was good for was his kicks."

You're missing out some accounts. What would Jackie be without Yuen Woo Ping/Ng See Yuen? What would Sammo be with Raymond Chow? And what would Biu be without Sammo? Hard work is essential to build up a career indeed, but chance/opportunity comes first (like I said). Without that, there nothing to go from.

Donnie may have not been famous like them trio back then, but his movies were famous enough to attract directors who wanted very capable screenfighters for their movies.

"Yuen Woo Ping is a very good director, have we forgoten what made Donnie Yen famous, "Once upon a time in China 2" acton directored Yuen Woo Ping. Tiger Cage 1 and 2 and lots more. Yuen Woo Ping has also made some top quality non-wire movies eg Snake in the Eagles Shadow and Drunken Master 1 both with Jackie Chan."

Well, you're talking about action. If anything, I meant the drama/acting in his movies. YWP was never a real director in his whole career. The only thing he was really good at was comedy but that's it. Everything else he couldn't handle very good, plus his movies (at least those after the kung fu comedy genre) has the tendency to look very cheap and shallow.

"I have to disagree with this, Ip Man the movies was fictional too the only truth to the whole movie was that he was asked to teach Japaneses soldier Wing Chun, thats about it. He was a police man most of his life and after the War he moved to Hong Kong to open a school. The was no big fight with the Japanese general. Where as Huo Yuanjia was actually challenged to combat by other nations and he beat them.
Fearless or Once upon a time china were fictional movies but that had more emotions that Donnie Yen showed, if u haven't screen Fearless pls watch it and just look at the acting by Jet Li, forget about the fighting and then tell that Donnie Yen is better."

Fearless is as fake as Ip Man when it comes to story so there's no point making differences in figuring out what's real and what's fake in both of them movies. In the end, they do have history accuracies but they also have their share of fictionalized events just to spice it up for the viewers (right?), there's no denial to that.

As for Ip Man, I wasn't talking about the story in Ip Man, I'm meant the portrayal of Ip Man as the man he was. For that, the team hired Ip Chun to coach Donnie in how to act like Ip Man to bring out the right feel and intentions for the portrayal. And they did an excellent job doing that. With a fictionalized basis, you have at least an authentic/real performance of the real-life character which for me tops everything ever made to this day (yep, even Fearless and that had a richer and better developed story).

And as for Fearless/OUATIC having more emotions than Ip Man, I don't know (more emotions doesn't mean it's always a great thing) but the most important thing is how these emotions are executed (for me at least as it can look different in every actor) and how well they affect people. I was far more impressed with Ip Man than with Fearless (it's a great movie) and OUATIC though because it left a greater impact in me.

"Also to MIlkyway i would like to say sorry if i appear rude, i just like to debate about this things."

No problem.

"All am trying to say is that ur biased in your views towards him."

I already said that Donnie used to be a bad actor. And just to add more, he's done BAD movies as well with bad acting, direction and production values. I could go on if you want to :)

"U make it sound like Jackie, Sammo and Biao got handed their frame on a gold plate, these guys worked hard to become what they are now, Jackie has make a lot of low budget movies using dangerous stuff to do his stunts. Plus these guys where not famous for their kung fu but more for their stunts, comedy, and fight sence. Donnie was not famous back than becos he could compete with them in any level, all he was good for was his kicks."

You're missing out some accounts. What would Jackie be without Yuen Woo Ping/Ng See Yuen? What would Sammo be with Raymond Chow? And what would Biu be without Sammo? Hard work is essential to build up a career indeed, but chance/opportunity comes first (like I said). Without that, there nothing to go from.

Donnie may have not been famous like them trio back then, but his movies were famous enough to attract directors who wanted very capable screenfighters for their movies.

"Yuen Woo Ping is a very good director, have we forgoten what made Donnie Yen famous, "Once upon a time in China 2" acton directored Yuen Woo Ping. Tiger Cage 1 and 2 and lots more. Yuen Woo Ping has also made some top quality non-wire movies eg Snake in the Eagles Shadow and Drunken Master 1 both with Jackie Chan."

Well, you're talking about action. If anything, I meant the drama/acting in his movies. YWP was never a real director in his whole career. The only thing he was really good at was comedy but that's it. Everything else he couldn't handle very good, plus his movies (at least those after the kung fu comedy genre) has the tendency to look very cheap and shallow.

"I have to disagree with this, Ip Man the movies was fictional too the only truth to the whole movie was that he was asked to teach Japaneses soldier Wing Chun, thats about it. He was a police man most of his life and after the War he moved to Hong Kong to open a school. The was no big fight with the Japanese general. Where as Huo Yuanjia was actually challenged to combat by other nations and he beat them.
Fearless or Once upon a time china were fictional movies but that had more emotions that Donnie Yen showed, if u haven't screen Fearless pls watch it and just look at the acting by Jet Li, forget about the fighting and then tell that Donnie Yen is better."

Fearless is as fake as Ip Man when it comes to story so there's no point making differences in figuring out what's real and what's fake in both of them movies. In the end, they do have history accuracies but they also have their share of fictionalized events just to spice it up for the viewers (right?), there's no denial to that.

As for Ip Man, I wasn't talking about the story in Ip Man, I'm meant the portrayal of Ip Man as the man he was. For that, the team hired Ip Chun to coach Donnie in how to act like Ip Man to bring out the right feel and intentions for the portrayal. And they did an excellent job doing that. With a fictionalized basis, you have at least an authentic/real performance of the real-life character which for me tops everything ever made to this day (yep, even Fearless and that had a richer and better developed story).

And as for Fearless/OUATIC having more emotions than Ip Man, I don't know (more emotions doesn't mean it's always a great thing) but the most important thing is how these emotions are executed (for me at least as it can look different in every actor) and how well they affect people. I was far more impressed with Ip Man than with Fearless (it's a great movie) and OUATIC though because it left a greater impact in me.

"Also to MIlkyway i would like to say sorry if i appear rude, i just like to debate about this things."

No problem.

Hi

First of all i would like to apologize to Milkyway, there is nothing wrong with being a Donnie Yen fan. All am trying to say is that ur biased in your views towards him. Am a fan of Jackie, Sammo and Biao but i would be the first to criticise them if they where making dodge movies

"Why Donnie Yen was never mentioned and couldn't compete with them (comparing big and small names doesn't make one another better)? Because, like you said, attention was paid towards Jackie, Sammo and Biu. And because of that, not as much chance were given to other talents that were being exposed in limited productions"

U make it sound like Jackie, Sammo and Biao got handed their frame on a gold plate, these guys worked hard to become what they are now, Jackie has make a lot of low budget movies using dangerous stuff to do his stunts. Plus these guys where not famous for their kung fu but more for their stunts, comedy, and fight sence. Donnie was not famous back than becos he could compete with them in any level, all he was good for was his kicks.

"Yuen Woo Ping is a bad drama director so you're right. But he left him, and now he's just getting better at it thanks to someone who is much more experienced with acting and has helps him improve his acting skills. So it's meaningless to think Donnie will always remain the bad actor he used to be. Times have changed and so has he"

Yuen Woo Ping is a very good director, have we forgoten what made Donnie Yen famous, "Once upon a time in China 2" acton directored Yuen Woo Ping. Tiger Cage 1 and 2 and lots more. Yuen Woo Ping has also made some top qulaity non-wire movies eg Snake in the Eagles Shadow and Drunken Master 1 both with Jackie Chan.


"There's a fine line between emotions and justice. The acting in those were fine (not peculiar imo) but they weren't right for portraying the kung fu masters (which was the intention) because the portrayals were fictionalized for the sake of topics. In the end; good acting but fake portrayals. At least Donnie got it right."

I have to disagree with this, Ip Man the movies was fictional too the only truth to the whole movie was that he was asked to teach Japanesse soldier Wing Chun, thats about it. He was a police man most of his life and after the War he moved to Hong Kong to open a school. The was no big fight with the Japanesse general. Where as Huo Yuanjia was actually chanelleged to combat by other nations and he beat them.
Fearless or Once upton a time china were fictonal movies but that had more emtions that Donnie Yen showed, if u havent screen Fearless pls watch it and just look at the acting by Jet Li, forget about the fighting and then tell that Donnie Yen is better.

Darren am going to have to say that out of those movies u listed, Donnie Yen carrying on his freaking back for years" Only Flash point was good. Dragon Tiger Gate was a yo yo movies which u claimed hurts a martial artist, Sha Po Lung was all about Donnie Yen and his new found love for UFC type of fighting. Nothing wrong with that but he had Wu jing and Sammo in the movies and he just beat them like they were nothing, no respect for his fellow actors. Hes to Hollywood for me.
The Rebel, Chocolate, Kinta 1991, Undisputed 2, In Hell, Invisable Target, Fatal Move,The Art of Fighting. There alot of good movies out the is u look hard enough

Would just like to say that i agree with Milyway in terms on Donnie changing and become a better actor but in my view he still has alot to learn before he can compete with the like of Jet LI and others.
Also to MIlkyway i would like to say sorry if i appear rude, i just like to debate about this things.

I'd like to agree with milyway.Nobody was given an opertunity during the 80's when Jackie, Sammo, and Yuen Baio were big.Second: Yuen Woo Ping's rep is way inflated. Don't get me wrong, the man is a brilliant coreographer, but the reliance on wire work hurts him. Look at the old stuff when he didn't use wires, bluntly put it was total sick. Now I will acknowlage that the talent pool has completely totally and utterly evaporated.However, yo-yo kung fu is played. Donnie has carried the Hong Kong martial arts movie on his freaking back for years. Dragon Tiger Gate,Sha Po Lung,Flashpoint,Seven Swords,Ip Man. Nuff said, show me a movie other than Tony Jaa's where the action is better.

"In refernces to Milkyway

Who you can all c is a big fan of Donnie Yen."

Fan claiming is laughable. Save it.

"Back in the 80's when Hong Kong cinema was making some great movies thanks to Jackie, Sammo and Yuen Biao. Where was no mention of Donnie Yen? Exactly! Hes movies couldnt complete with the like of the big boys."

Funny that you're answering for me when I'm not even agreeing with that. So no, not "exactly!", lol.

Why Donnie Yen was never mentioned and couldn't compete with them (comparing big and small names doesn't make one another better)? Because, like you said, attention was paid towards Jackie, Sammo and Biu. And because of that, not as much chance were given to other talents that were being exposed in limited productions. And that was in the past. Now these stars are no longer what they used to be because they get older and are tired of taking up fighting roles all the time. It's always a good thing others can be given that spotlight as well.

"The only guy who made Donnie Yen famous was Yuen Wo Ping, so lets not act like he was a great actor."

Yuen Woo Ping is a bad drama director so you're right. But he left him, and now he's just getting better at it thanks to someone who is much more experienced with acting and has helps him improve his acting skills. So it's meaningless to think Donnie will always remain the bad actor he used to be. Times have changed and so has he.

"Ip Man was a man at the end of the day, he had more emotions just being "gentle, subtle and calm"."

And that's exactly what I brought up earlier (thanks for reminding me though :) ). Read again.


"Look at the Jet Li when he played Wong Fei Hung and Huo Yuanjia he showed more emotions. "

There's a fine line between emotions and justice. The acting in those were fine (not peculiar imo) but they weren't right for portraying the kung fu masters (which was the intention) because the portrayals were fictionalized for the sake of topics. In the end; good acting but fake portrayals. At least Donnie got it right.

Hi

In references to what Manny77 said :

"he's been carrying 50% of HK cinema on his shoulders, on and behind the cameras for the past few years"

My point exactly, becos of this Hong Kong cinema has become weak (in terms of action martial arts movies) look how Ong Bak, The Rebel and other countries have stayed with the basic yet affective style of martial arts movies.
I say Donnie is a weak act becos he think hes Bruce Lee, i have seen a lot of Donnie Yen movies in my time and not once does he face a fight who is better than him, not like Jackie Chan, Sammo or Yuen Biao. Now these guys were the starts of the movies but they still had respect to other fighting styles. Good example would b Wheels on Meals where Jackie Chan couldnt beat Benny the Jet's character, so he out smarted him not in strenght or speed but in mind.

In refernces to Milkyway

Who you can all c is a big fan of Donnie Yen. Back in the 80's when Hong Kong cinema was making some great movies thanks to Jackie, Sammo and Yuen Biao. Where was no mention of Donnie Yen? Exactly! Hes movies couldnt complete with the like of the big boys. The only guy who made Donnie Yen famous was Yuen Wo Ping, so lets not act like he was a great actor.

Ip Man was a man at the end of the day, he had more emotions just being "gentle, subtle and calm". Look at the Jet Li when he played Wong Fei Hung and Huo Yuanjia he showed more emotions.

Seems to me that martial arts movies in Hong Kong are getting weaker and people are trying to defend it. Its a shame, i find myself turning to other contries to enjoy a good martial art movie

"as an actor (versus a martial artist) he just seems to lack charisma."

Your right but now that Ip Man is out I don't think he'll have that problem anymore as the movie just about shows what he's capable of but never had the chance to fully expose in previous movies. His charisma and acting is really showing (no one else came close) and his presentation as well as screentime are enough to let him carry on the whole movie on his own. And that's something he never really did in his movies back then (except for his two first movies and his directorial efforts).

I'm itching to watch some good new HK movies, but Donnie doesn't do much for me either. I can't really say why, haven't seen too much of his work; but as an actor (versus a martial artist) he just seems to lack charisma.

"Donnie is not a good actor he has the same emotion thro out the whole movie."

What an understatement. Did you even pay attention?

Just as Manny said, that's how Ip Man was in real life; gentle, subtle and calm, and when times changed so did his character and in turn his emotions which is clearly depicted through Donnie's acting. Acting is not just about selling your facial expressions to the viewers, getting into character is as (perhaps more so) important.

"Looks to me that Hong Kong is running out of good actors so they have to use Donnie Yen."

There's many actors in Hong Kong that the industry can rely on so that's an exaggerating thing to say. Donnie really deserves a nomination and eventually an award for Ip Man though, because of his outstanding presentation (it stays true to the real Ip Man unlike many other biopics that made the portrayals nothing but huge screw-ups). Presentation is the game, no matter the talent or experience.

C'mon tie how can you said that Donnie Yen is not a good actor, he's been carrying 50% of HK cinema on his shoulders, on and behind the cameras for the past few years, I do agree with you that he has the same emotion throught the entire movie but that's what make the movie a great movie, you can't change the character emotion on a movie that it based on that emotion. he should win best actor, and if he doesn't win it should go to Tony Leung for Red Cliff, another great movie.

whoa this is bogus in a way was there no way for nicholas tse to win he deserves a best actor nod for his role i thought or at least the fact that the movie CJ7 isnt half as good as Dante Lam s the Beast Stalker which should have been nominated for best film instead. Well in the end Donnie will not win best actor and tony leung will prolly steal it again. This reminds me of...................... Hollywoood Screw jobs .............. in Hong Kong .... Doche Doche !

Ip man was a weak movie, come on has the standards got that low. Donnie is not a good actor he has the same emotion thro out the whole movie. Jet Li in Once a time in China was a far better actor than him. Looks to me that Hong Kong is running out of good actors so they have to use Donnie Yen.

Quite sad not to c jackie up, but i guess Hong Kong has changed, pple r more into period dramas. Only problem with this is that Hong Hong is going over board with it. Would like to c some good old fashion cop movies again

donnie yen the best and ip man by number 1.gracias

thats kinda screwy... both of donnie's films are nominated, but then again, vicki is in red cliff and painted skin. anyway, i was watching some chinese tv sometime ago, and they showed a music video of the main theme song from painted skin. the song is surprisingly really good. it has a romantic epic feel to it like jackie chan's the myth: endless love, so i hope painted skin win for best original film song.