Snake and Crane Arts of Shaolin in Cantonese?

[Space]

I've been looking for this movie and all the versions I see are either Mandarin or English...any Cantonese versions, with English subs, floating about?

[Gaijin84]

I believe the Hong Kong Legends version has the Cantonese soundtrack w/English subtitles

[Markgway]

It's supposed to be in Mandarin.

[Space]

It's supposed to be in Mandarin.

Really? I thought it was a HK production by Lo Wei Productions, which is a Golden Harvest subsidiary?

Then again it was shot in mainland China, right? I've only seen short clips on YouTube but what I saw was in the snow.

I guess it makes sense to make it in Mandarin for the story of the movie though...too bad...

[Delirious]

If i recall correctly, Cantonese only became the first choice of language after the rise in popularity of cantonese tv series around the end of 1970's. Before that most movies were spoken in Mandarin dialect. Entering the 80's Cantopops soared to great height with the like of Anita Mui, Alan Tam, Leslie Chung. Since then Cantonese was regarded as the official language for Hong Kong.

[FrankBolte]

If i recall correctly, Cantonese only became the first choice of language after the rise in popularity of cantonese tv series around the end of 1970's. Before that most movies were spoken in Mandarin dialect. Entering the 80's Cantopops soared to great height with the like of Anita Mui, Alan Tam, Leslie Chung. Since then Cantonese was regarded as the official language for Hong Kong.

if you include all the black and white wong fei hung movies you are wrong...they were all shot in cantonese as many other black and white HK movies...

[Markgway]

Really? I thought it was a HK production by Lo Wei Productions, which is a Golden Harvest subsidiary?

Then again it was shot in mainland China, right? I've only seen short clips on YouTube but what I saw was in the snow.

I guess it makes sense to make it in Mandarin for the story of the movie though...too bad...

At this point in time (circa 1977) Lo Wei Motion Picture was based out of Taiwan. It had nothing to do with Golden Harvest and was a pure indie company. Later he made a handful of Hong Kong films but not with Jackie. Snake & Crane was actually filmed in South Korea and not China. The Koreans would be speaking their language, naturally, but otherwise it was a Mandarin film.

[Markgway]

If i recall correctly, Cantonese only became the first choice of language after the rise in popularity of cantonese tv series around the end of 1970's. Before that most movies were spoken in Mandarin dialect. Entering the 80's Cantopops soared to great height with the like of Anita Mui, Alan Tam, Leslie Chung. Since then Cantonese was regarded as the official language for Hong Kong.

Cantonese and English are the official languages of Hong Kong and have been since the British colonization. The reason so many HK films were made in Mandarin was due to, frankly, snobbery on the part of the studios. Mandarin was deemed to be a classical, educated sounding language, more suited for proper cinema. Filming in Mandarin also gave the filmmakers access to a greater pool of actors originally from Taiwan and China. Cantonese productions reduced toward the end of the 60s, died out in 1972, before being resurrected the following year with The House fo 72 Tenants. Action films remained in Mandarin until 1976; it was really comedy that provoked the resurgence.

[Delirious]

Markway, thank you for straighten that out, I was always confused about that period.

[mpm74]

Markgway is the man. Great information.

I love Jackie's Lo Wei period. Some gems in there for sure, especially Dragon Fist. =D

[masterofoneinchpunch]

Cantonese and English are the official languages of Hong Kong and have been since the British colonization. The reason so many HK films were made in Mandarin was due to, frankly, snobbery on the part of the studios. Mandarin was deemed to be a classical, educated sounding language, more suited for proper cinema. Filming in Mandarin also gave the filmmakers access to a greater pool of actors originally from Taiwan and China. Cantonese productions reduced toward the end of the 60s, died out in 1972, before being resurrected the following year with The House fo 72 Tenants. Action films remained in Mandarin until 1976; it was really comedy that provoked the resurgence.

It had more to do then just snobbery (though that was certainly part of it, especially since many of the directors of Shaws at that time had previously worked in the Mainland as well as Run Run's view of Mandarin). It had to do a lot with transnational sales as well. I agree with Poshek Fu in that "“to bring Chinese-language cinema to a worldwide audience, the Shaw Brothers Studio adopted Mandarin as its business language.” This point is reiterated quite a bit in China Forever (2008).

How was Chan's Mandarin at the time of Snake and Crane Arts of Shaolin?

Of course the comedy of Michael Hui really helped in the resurgence of Cantonese.

FYI: Box office tally of The House of 72 Tenants (1973) was 5,626,675 according to HKFA. Games Gamblers Play was 6,251,633.

[Markgway]

It had more to do then just snobbery (though that was certainly part of it, especially since many of the directors of Shaws at that time had previously worked in the Mainland as well as Run Run's view of Mandarin). It had to do a lot with transnational sales as well. I agree with Poshek Fu in that "“to bring Chinese-language cinema to a worldwide audience, the Shaw Brothers Studio adopted Mandarin as its business language.” This point is reiterated quite a bit in China Forever (2008).

Many producers besides Shaw made Mandarin movies. Mandarin was considered a prestige language among the elite, whereas Cantonese was viewed as resolutely working class. Regardless, there was only one year in the history of HK cinema when no Cantonese movies were produced. Within a matter of months there was a rebirth. Shaws held out the longest as far as making Mandarin pictures went; even they could not ignore the overwhelming public demand for Cantonese. By the early 1980s only a fraction of Shaw output was Mandarin. Given that Mandarin is the dominant Chinese language it's understandable that use of that language would open many distribution doors. Outside Asia most of these films were either dubbed into English or never released.

How was Chan's Mandarin at the time of Snake and Crane Arts of Shaolin?

Good. Jackie's first Cantonese movie was Snake in the Eagle's Shadow so until then he'd had a lot of practice in Mandarin movies.

Of course the comedy of Michael Hui really helped in the resurgence of Cantonese.

Yes. If 72 Tenants was the film that kicked it off, The Hui Bros were the stars who drove the movement.

FYI: Box office tally of The House of 72 Tenants (1973) was 5,626,675 according to HKFA. Games Gamblers Play was 6,251,633.

Yes, each film topped the box office of their respective year. Without 72 Tenants there wouldn't have been a Games Gamblers Play.

[JCLegend86]

I love Jackie's Lo Wei period. Some gems in there for sure, especially Dragon Fist. =D

Totally! Was watching Fearless Hyena yesterday, so great!! Will have JC 70's movie marathon the next days :)

[mpm74]

Totally! Was watching Fearless Hyena yesterday, so great!! Will have JC 70's movie marathon the next days :)

Exactly.

It's a good look at his almost-famous career. He was still hungry, didn't exactly find himself (before he became the comedy kung-fu guy)... movies like Dragon Fist usually get a bad rap, but where the fuck else are you going to find a serious kung fu movie with Jackie Chan like this?

What came first, Fearless Hyena or Snake In The Eagles Shadow? Or maybe around the same time?

[Asmo]

SITES. Without SITES and Drunken Master, Jackie most probably wouldn't have been given the chance to create Fearless Hyena.

[mpm74]

Hmmm... so Fearless Hyena was AFTER Sites and DM?

[JCLegend86]

SITES and DM came in 78, Fearless Hyena in 79.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Chan_filmography

[David Rees]

After the success of Snake and Drunken Master Jackie was still under contract to Lo Wei, but after the huge box office he decided to let him direct his next film which was Fearless Hyena.
After that film he got Jackie to sign a new contract and started filming Fearless Hyena 2 when Jackie was so unhappy he fled , i think to Taiwan. After signing for Golden Harvest Lo Wei was really pissed off and rumour has it wanted Jackie dead.
I heard thats why he spent a long time in America doing Big Brawl until things cooled down and things were settled, thats where i think Wang Yu got involved.
Im sure others on here can elaborate.
I like Fearless Hyena as well as Dragon Fist both solid films


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[mpm74]

Interesting.

Thanks for the info.

[Markgway]

I don't think it was Lo Wei that wanted Jackie harmed but his Triad backers. That's why Wang Yu got involved.

Fearless Hyena was the only Cantonese film Jackie made for Lo, who even allowed him almost total control in a bid to prevent him straying. Obviously it didn't work and Jackie jumped ship during early production of Hyena 2 in 1979.

[mpm74]

And wasn't Fantasy Mission Force and Island of Fire connected to all this as well? I remember reading about it, but can't put my finger on the details.

Isn't it funny how Bruce Lee had similar drama with Lo Wei?

[Killer Meteor]

And wasn't Fantasy Mission Force and Island of Fire connected to all this as well? I remember reading about it, but can't put my finger on the details.

?

Yes, jackie did those as a favour to Jimmy Wang Yu. As did Sammo on the latter, apparently, which makes me wonder what history he has with the Triads?

[luckystars]

I'm pretty sure Wang Yu speaks about Jackie's involvement (Island of Fire) in the HKL interview.

[Markgway]

The Triads bothered every famous actor.

Andy Lau had major troubles also.

[Asmo]

The Triads bothered every famous actor.


Except Simon Yam, I believe.

[Markgway]

Except Simon Yam, I believe.

Wonder why that would be?

[chen lung]

Wonder why that would be?
His brother's a policeman (or used to be?).

[Asmo]

Wonder why that would be?

His brother's a policeman (or used to be?).

Chen is correct, from wikipedia (and I've seen it listed elsewhere too):

"His elder brother is retired Deputy Commissioner of Hong Kong Police Yam Tak-Wing"

[David Rees]

Read the book Hong Kong Babylon, good insight into triad involvement in the 80's...Jet Li's manager was shot dead i think for not releasing him to do a certain film.
I wouldnt be suprised if Bruce Lee's death was triad related but we will never know.


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[Karlos]

Yeah, it makes you wonder...

Jackie threatened to walk from Lo Wei - Wei responded by sending armed men to "persuade" him otherwise.

Bruce actually quit, plus slept with Wei's ex wife - ends up dead.

Of course, we'll probably never know the full truth, and it's easy to put 2 & 2 together and get 5, but I've figured for a long time Lo Wei had something to do with Bruce's death.