John Woo- the world's best action film director?

[rebelliousreign1]

I am now convinced that John Woo is arguably the world's best action film director ever- I find it impossible to pick one film of his above the others...in fact the only other directors I consider his equal are Sergio Leone and Clint Eastwood for my tastes.
John Woo's flicks are so superb I rather think it's a poor statement to merely call them action flicks: they are very moving, sometimes intensely moving like 'Bullet In The Head' (arguably my favourite movie of all time), and feature the most amazing gunplay action scenes ever shot.
But overall, I haven't liked his Hollywood stuff so far- oddly enough, the only one that didn't disappoint me was 'Hard Target', which kept the action if nothing else...
Anybody else care to agree with me on these statements?

[Markgway]

I'd pretty much agree with all that.

Bullet in the Head, A Better Tomorrow, Hard-Boiled & The Killer are masterworks.

And yes, Hard Target is by far the best thing Woo has done Stateside before he got corrupted into being Hollywood hack.

[Dion Brother]

Now that he is a Hollywood hack, I cannot agree with the statement. 13 years ago, I would have agreed, though. I think FACE/OFF is his best US work. In fact, I prefer it to the cold, plotless HARD-BOILED, the most overrated Hong Kong movie before HERO.

[Markgway]

I think FACE/OFF is his best US work. In fact, I prefer it to the cold, plotless HARD-BOILED, the most overrated Hong Kong movie before HERO.

Totally disagree with that statement, dude. Hard-Boiled is one the best action films ever made. Face-Off is hammy, over-cooked nonsense. And I thought Hero was very good when I saw it. :D

[rebelliousreign1]

Me too- 'Hard Boiled' is totally awesome from start to finish with some of the most amazing action ever seen on screen...overrated??
I hated 'Face Off'- it was far too Americanised for my tastes, and I am one of those people who would gladly take Chow Yun Fat or Tony Leung over Travolta or Cage anyday....

[Markgway]

I don't have a problem with Travolta or Cage individually, but here their acting chews up the carpet. I've seen less mugging in a Jerry Lewis film!

[jirpy100]

That's one of the things about Hard-Boiled, Tony Leung, Chow Yun Fat and Anthony Wong arguably does the best acting any action movie has ever seen. AND then you got shoot-outs too! I hope the upcoming R2 disc on 27 September finally does the film justice.

[Dion Brother]

I think HARD-BOILED proves that you can have the best action scenes in the world and still make an uninvolving movie. Thought the characters were dull, which was not the case with Woo's previous policiers, the plot was nonsense. The only time you get a flash of the real Woo is when Phillip Kwok turns on Anthony Wong. It was the only scene that stood out. The rest was just endless stunts and shootouts (and often TOO unbelieveable) and it is a movie about nothing. A letdown after BULLET IN THE HEAD. I'm not saying it was terrible. I'd rate it as a **1/2 movie that everybody else thinks is a ****.

At the time it came out, all the fanzines were so into kissing John Woo's ass, you couldn't get an honest review of anything. Now that Hollywood has turned him into a hack, his flaws are more obvious.

And I like the over-the-top hamminess of FACE/OFF because it fit the material, but I also dig Ken Russell movies. So what else is new?

[Dion Brother]

"I don't have a problem with Travolta or Cage individually, but here their acting chews up the carpet. I've seen less mugging in a Jerry Lewis film! "

Actually, their acting is closer to what the over-the-top acting you get in Hong Kong movies. ie: Chow's "You don't like my rice?" in ABT 2 and Jackie Cheung's shooting of US soldiers and later psychotic freakouts in A BULLET IN THE HEAD. Overdramatic scene-chewing in both scenes, but becuase they are HK productions, fans overlook it.

[magic8]

I've enjoyed many of Woo's movies, including the Hollywood stuff. I even liked Paycheck and Windtalkers.
And yes, Hard Target is by far the best thing Woo has done Stateside before he got corrupted into being Hollywood hack
Hard Target is one of the few that I thought was ok compared to the titles listed above. And in restrospect, I find Hard Target less and less appealing. Granted he ain't gonna make Hard Boiled or Bullet in the Head type movies anymore, but he does make entertaining movies, imho.

[darkjedi69]

John Woo. Now there is a phenomonum. His track record pre-Hollywood is very impressive. The Killer and Hard Boiled are both very good. When in Hollywood, do as the American's do - and steal, borrow and blag!

Face/Off was ok, Hard Target not too bad and Paycheck, well the less said the better and as for Mission Impossible 2 .......

Seroiusly though, blame the writers. After all a director can only direct what is in front of him.
:)

[TheManInWhite]

I love Hard Boiled!! One of the best opening action sequences in cinema history IMO. And it manages to keep its altitude for the duration of the film. Very hard to do but Woo pulls it off brilliantly!

[vlade2002]

Come to think of it? thats a forgetable movie, all honesty Hard Boiled isnt that great as a film.

Once A Theif, The Killer, A better Tomorrow 2 on the hand are not forgetable, they are classics.

My Favourite John Woo US film is Mission Impossible 2, people hate it because of obvious reasons (ITS NOTHING LIKE THE FIRST PART, MAN! - yeah no @#%$) though I just love the dialogue between Anthony Hopkins and Tom Cruise, which are some of the better scenes in the movie.

[darkjedi69]

As per my thread in Martial Arts Film 1985 - Present, apparently his next but one film, is called 'The Unbeatable'.

Sounds interesting.

Check out my thread for what details I know.

:|

[kenichiku]

He's certainly the most imitated of all films from 80-90s that feature some sort of gunplay to the point of cliche, though his reign and influence worldwide now is still huge. His first American film was not too shabby. His best American I'm going out on a limb to predict is yet to come after a slide. MI2 I liked better than most people but didn't care too much for all the others.

I found most of John's HK stuff tops but the balancing act of all his themes - epic operatic violence, a real sense of male chivalry, nostalgia and a touch of pathos has to go to 'A Bullet in the Head', even with the blatant scenic references to well known American Vietnam films.

[rebelliousreign1]

Yep I'd agree on 'Bullet In The Head'- Woo himself called it his most personal film, and this comes across- for once I found many of the non-action scenes to be as gripping, possibly more gripping- than the action itself.
Tony Leung gives a truly outstanding performance, and Jackie Cheung is superb also, the two delivering what I consider to be the most moving scene I have ever seen in a film when Jackie Cheung is a drug addled mentally ill killer.
Simon Yam is super cool as the killer Luke; possibly only Chow Yun Fat could have done as well.
Waise Lee isn't too bad in my opinion- certainly not as good as the other leads, but you end up hating his character anyhow- possibly due to his overacting I dunno...
Though the climax is overlong, I still find it very effective- particularly how Woo intercuts between the crazed car duel and the gentle bike rides of their early days, and I think the ending is perfect- a terrific long shot of Tony Leung throwing his gun away amongst the burning carnage...
A true masterwork.

[darkjedi69]

I am hoping that he redeems himself some what with his next film, which is being shot in Hong Kong & China. The name of it escapes me at the moment, but it stars Chow Yun Fat and Jet Li, and is out late next year.

Should be good. Looking forward to seeing a trailer nearer the time.
:D

[shaolinmonk85]

the killer own hard boiled all day everydays. better plot, deeper emotions, better actors, @#%$ the last scene is the best action scene ever.

hard boiled is a bigger the killer, without the emotions. i think once a thief is equally excellent, with better tommorow , bullet,killer and boiled.

still i like also a better tomorrow 2 and i taugh heroes shed no tears was really funny

dont forget last hurray guys.

[Daisho2004]

I have to agree John Woo is the best action Director that is out there today, a lot of Directors use his style in there movies today.

Daisho2004

[darkjedi69]

His next film is now called 'Brokeback Mountain'.

Dont know much about it.

The Unbeatable has been put on hold due to financial difficulties.

[BKarza]

Woo seemed to have more problems than anyone else coming stateside to keep his creativity. Leone had OUaTiA hacked up by the studio but that was his only "stateside" film.

I'd say Face Off is his best movie here. I like Hard Target the best. It's the only one that looks like HE did it. See the workprint to really see what he did. It's all there.

Broken Arrow seems like someone hacked him. Hell, all of the movies, save Hard Target come off like someone hacked him. Hollywood was scared of his violence level and film style and neutered him. I've heard stories of producers assigned to his sets to watch what he was doing, content wise. You'll notice the only time his trademark visual stuff was seen, was when he did his own tv projects.

While he has lost it all as far as we're concerned, he's rich.

[darkjedi69]

John Woo has apparently agreed to direct the movie of the ultra successful computer/console game 'Rainbow Six' according to www.empireonline.com

Could be very good indeed.

[Markgway]

Ooh!! Another video game turned movie. Can hardly wait!! :rolleyes

[godzillakungfu]

Even better he optioned the rights to Metroid. Whhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!:rolleyes

[jirpy100]

Now if only I could present my script about killer ninjas from an alternate dimension to him...

[dndcollect]

Woo is the man no question but he has fell off. I personally liked Face Off ALOT and I loved MI2. I think that these two films have many similaraitys to the Killer and his other films. Now, if you are going to compare the US movies to the hong kong ones there is no comparision here, but I unlike alot of people like most of his US stuff.

With that said Pay Check crushed me. That movie was beyond awful. It was unwatchable and it was for me the end of a great era.

Woo is my favorite director period. Anyone that says Hard Boiled is a bad movie should be put in prision for such sacrilig. While I agree it was a rather cold movie it was still great.

The Killer was obviously great but to me my favorite all time Woo film is A Better Tomorrow Part 2. That movie is one of the greatest films ever made IMO.

The sequence where Kit is dying and names his child while on the phone with his wife and then the scenes with Ho greiving his brother outside the hospital and then finally Ken, Ho, the Uncle, and the other dude praying at Kit's alter and then turning around and walking away in their black suits on their way to take out their enemys for me is the greatest and most powerful scene I have ever seen in a movie. While it embarrases me to say the first time I saw all that I had tears in my eyes and a feeling of such adreleine I almost had to change my underwear. And then to top it off, you have one of the best action sequences in the history of movies at the end.

Man, I have goose bumps typing this. Also, the music score of that movie in brilliant. The scene when the Uncle comes back to Hong Kong and calls up his boy who sold him out with that music is wonderful.

I could go on and on. with all this said there are also simiilary moving scenes in the Killer.

Anyway this topic has envoked one of my passions in life so sorry if I am rambeling.

Now finally with all that said since sadly Woo has dropped off a new Hong Kong director has taken his place and his name is Jonnie to. If you like Woo you MUST watch the following To movies: Full Time Killer, The Mission, and A Hero Never Dies.

Ok im done.

[rederror]

Yeah i agree with a lot of these aopinions on this subject. In my opinion Hard Boiled and Bullet in The Head are his best, with Bullet being my personal favourite. The Killer is brilliant aswell and i was blown away seeing all these films for the first (and many times after) time. Another of my favourite John Woo movies is Last Hurrah For Chivalry which in my opinion is brilliantly directed and shows he can direct any king of action if it be Kung Fu, or shootouts. As far as his US movies go, i liked Face Off quite a lot but the others i didn't really care for.

As a last note i think there is no better director than Woo for absolute ballistic action scenes and i don't think the likes of Hard Boiled, Bulllet In The Head and The Killer will ever be topped.

[Marvel Minion]

I'm sure i'm not alone in saying this, but John Woo is one of my favorite directors...of ANY genre. I love the symbolism, the themes, his ability to get the best out of his actors, and above all...the action :) .

Like a previous poster mentioned, I'm not sure why Woo received so much negativity for his US stint. His American films aren't on the level of his Hong Kong work (masterpieces), but they serve as satisfying popcorn flicks. Face Off is probably my favorite US Woo film, followed by the much-maligned MI-2. I didn't really enjoy Broken Arrow, however.

Bullet In The Head and Hardboiled are my favorite Woo films. They're untouchable. ABT I, II are both fantastic films as well. I felt The Killer was abit overrated...I can't put my finger on it, but it just doesn't register the same emotional impact the previously mentioned films have. It's still a great film, by all rights, but I don't see how people can consider it his best work. I'm trying to make a point to view Once A Thief, but from the less than stellar reviews I have received about it, I've been putting it off. Anyone have some thoughts they'd like to share about that movie?

[odioustrident]

I doubt John Woo has really nailed most genres of HK action, but Hard Boiled is easily the best gunplay film (definitely the best choreography from what I can see).

Last Hurrah for Chivalry is definitely a contender for best straight ACTION wuxia. I'm sure Tang Chia-directed stuff from the early 80's is in competition for the action wuxia title as well.