MMA Fan opinions on Rickson Gracie

[GwaiLoMoFo]

Alot of people feel Rickson is the baddest Gracie to ever walk the planet. Unfortunatley I dont think he ever really proved that to be true in the ring. He only had a handfull of televised fights. None against any real name MMA fighters. I was really disappointed when he only made 2 Pride appearances against the same fighter, Nobahiko Takada. A fighter who everybody knew basically stood no chance of beating Rickson (although the second fight was much better than the first). I thought for sure after Sakuraba kept b*tch slapping all of Rickson's cousins, brothers and students they would eventually throw down. Especially with that intense Brazilian pride they always talk about. Saku was given the nickname of "Gracie Killer" for pete sake. And the Gracie's #1 guy wouldnt step up to squash it? I know there was some buzz about it happening, but nothing ever came of it. Were they afraid of the fallout of a possible Rickson beat down? The shot the Gracie's name would take if the unthinkable happened? There were alot of good Pride fighters in his weight class at that time, why did he not ever fight any of the top fighters? To hear and read so much hype about him, and to not have the opportunity to see him show it against another top fighter has always disappointed me.

[Elvis Mantis]

Before I say anything else, let me state that Gracie Jiu jitsu is a great art. Very effective for ground fighting, very good for mma training. It is NOT the ultimate fighting art, or the ultimate street fighting art, IMHO (and many others).

The Gracies marketed their product with genius and turned it into a very lucrative product. When Royce was winning UFC's, most of his opponents were 10 years older than him, look it up. You could say, they were hand-picked. After Royce got absolutely annihilated by Matt Hughes, he appeared completely humiliated to me. I think you are on the right track, when you say that the Gracies avoided certain opponents. I don't think they are afraid to lose (they are warriors)--but I do think that they are more concerned with keeping up the image and mystique. It has become a major industry.

[Dion Brother]

Their mystique was destroyed by Sakuraba. Gracie Jiu Jitsu is a terrific art, but no one style is invincible, and the image they created in the early UFCs was that they were ubeatable. But it was simply never true. My memory might be wrong, but I recall Rickson ducked alot of challengers, including Bas Rutten.

[kermit]

You've got to remember that MMA from the early days of the UFC is a lot different to what it is now. Royce did the business with pretty much one style. Nowadays the top fighters in MMA really need to be well rounded fighters with strong skills in striking, grappling and Jiu Jitsu.

As for Matt Hughes whooping Royce Gracie, I think Royce at 39 was well past his prime. He was in that big money fight based on his reputation from years back, not what he'd done recently in the ring.

[Chinatown Kid]

Yes you have to give credit to Royce Gracie in that thru his early UFC fights he really brought grappling to the attention of nongrappling Martial Arts stylists and the public in general and how effective it was in NHB. It kicked off the grappling explosion and had seemingly everybody cross-training in Jujitsu, Judo, and wrestling. After watching his early UFC bouts I even started training in Judo to get some grappling skill after seeing how important it could be in an actual fight. Of course back then it was new to most people that Royce fought and so he had the upperhand. These days all MMA know they have to have a sound grappling game as well as striking and the most well-rounded fighter has the advantage.

[GwaiLoMoFo]

Where you at ShaKwon? I know you've got some knowledge on this subject!

I give the Gracies mad props for helping evolve the MMA fight game into what it is today. EVERY fighter now trains BJJ, they simply have too. Most of them train either under a Gracie, or somebody connected to a Gracie. There is no denying the major impact they've had on the sport.
The Gracies marketed their product with genius and turned it into a very lucrative product.
Spot on. I guess it was good "buisness" for Rickson to not take a big risk on damaging the family name by (potentially) loosing. I really dont believe he was afraid, just maybe thinking of the bigger picture. The fights I have seen, he was simply awesome on the ground. But damn he had NO stand up skill whatsoever. A strong striker/wrestler with a good sprawl coulda meant disaster for him.

[ShaKwon]

Where you at ShaKwon? I know you've got some knowledge on this subject!

Greetings,

I haven't seen enough of Rickson to form an opinion. Like you, I've seen his two pride fights w/ Takada. If I recall correctly, I enjoyed one more than the other.

Mma has evolved so much since then the early UFC & Pride events. Renzo seems to be the Gracie who has been most successful at adapting to mma's evolution.

Have you all seen the Rickson doc. Choke? I'm going to watch it again some time today. Right now, I'm craving warm, buttered, banana nut bread. :b So I'm off to Schnucks. Must feed the need.

I've never been a Gracie fan. They're too arrogant for my taste. Of course, Renzo is the exception.

Regards,

ShaKwon

[edher08]

hi, I too think that Rickson Gracie has ducked many worthy oponents and challenges. But i also don't think is because he's affraid of the mans, is the fear of losing face and the risk of been beaten and have one defeat on his clean 400-0 record ( A record that even his dad Helio think its B.S.)
And the reason why Renzo Gracie has evolved more than the other Gracies in MMA is because he's always fighting, win or lose he makes no excuses, he doesn't ask for "special rules" and fight with the rules of the event just like everybody else.

[WalkOn]

I have a lot of respect for Rickson and his family. I don't buy into the greatest fighter in the world stuff, because I don't think anyone is unbeatable, period. I believe Rickson and the Gracie Family have been successful in JiuJitsu, MMA and have marketed themselves extremely well, I'm not mad at them for it. Anyone who steps in the ring (or Octogan) has a chance to win, so I don't believe they hand picked fights, they simply want to be well compensated for their name/reputation, just like a top athelete in any other sport. I personally like Renzo the most from the Gracies but don't dislike anyone of them. When the Gracies became popular in the US in the 90's, most of their opponents were just ignorant of their art and how to deal with grappling. We should also give some credit to the Gracie family for starting the UFC, helping increase the popularity of MMA and balancing the training (opening the eyes) of practitioners of ma in general.

[Linn1]

I really dont believe he was afraid, just maybe thinking of the bigger picture. The fights I have seen, he was simply awesome on the ground.

I think this is correct. There's some Vale Tudo footage of Rickson floating around which is pretty damn impressive. His fight against Zulu was interesting, but it was when Zulu was getting a little long in the tooth fighter wise. That said, he still was an unbeaten fighter at that point. I think if he got a striker on the ground, he'd pretty much have his way. But a stand-up fight, I just don't see it.

[SlothStyleKungFu]

Since the rest of the family seemed so keen to capitalize, I think why he teetered out as modern MMA broadened was probably due to personal reasons, just not being into it, plus the whole myth of Rickson was pretty huge and he was no doubt conscious of keeping that from being tarnished.

All of those guys are great for what they did in the rough and tumble backalley and vale tudo days, but the quality of opposition simply doesn't compare to todays standards. His jits is no joke, thats for sure, but as far as being applicable back then (in all those 400+ undefeated matches he claimed to have that no ones got evidence of) and agaisnt modern fighters, we'll simply never know.

As for: "I was really disappointed when he only made 2 Pride appearances against the same fighter, Nobahiko Takada. A fighter who everybody knew basically stood no chance of beating Rickson (although the second fight was much better than the first)."

It is very well known that Takada engaged in "works", fights with predetermined outcomes. Not that Rickson needed it, but those fights were basically for show, just glorified wrasslin' matches. The most infamous one is Takada-Coleman, in the pre-US broadcast days, when Coleman took a dive. Its ridiculously faked and to this day Coleman probably regrets taking that paycheck.

[GwaiLoMoFo]

The most infamous one is Takada-Coleman, in the pre-US broadcast days, when Coleman took a dive. Its ridiculously faked and to this day Coleman probably regrets taking that paycheck.
You talikn about that weak heel hook he put on Coleman?