The Protector TV ad looks good, but is RZA added in movie?

[W Hong]

I've been seeing the t.v. commercials for the upcoming U.S. theatrical release of Tony Jaa's "The Protector" on some cable channels, and it looks like a good martial arts movie. But is it true that some rap songs from RZA are going to be added onto the movie, like maybe in the credits? If that's true, then could it have been possible for The Weinstein Co. to instead release the uncut Thai version of "TP" but with only a few changes for the U.S. audiences(English subtitles under the Thai credits)?

Also, I've never seen any of Tony Jaa's movies so I don't know about him as much as you guys. But is he known for never using wires for his fight scenes or for any of his other scenes? And was he born in Thailand or Indonesia or somewhere else?

While at a comic book convention, I do remember a H.K. DVD dealer showing a clip from "Ong Bak". After watching that scene, it seems like Tony is just like Jackie Chan in a way.

[Tosh]

Also, I've never seen any of Tony Jaa's movies so I don't know about him as much as you guys. But is he known for never using wires for his fight scenes or for any of his other scenes? And was he born in Thailand or Indonesia or somewhere else?

Oh, here we go:p , if you look back there's probably a dozen threads on Jaa in the modern section, to answer your questions, he's from Thailand, and he uses no wires, that's all him doing those crazyass flips.

If you haven't seen Ong Bak then what are you waiting for!!!! IMO, his best movie as Tom Yum Goong (AKA the Protector, the dumbest renaming since killzone) was an editing mess, but watch both and decide for yourself.

As far as the rap goes, it has no place in this movie, nothing against rap, but if I want to hear it I'll turn on the radio, I want the original soundtrack. I'm surprised they're even releasing it and not remaking it with Nicolas Cage.

[Chen Zhen]

Rza's job is to score the movie, and i dont think he will put any hiphop-hiphop in it unless its the credits...but i guess we'll find out.

[Liu chung liang]

It's going to be dubbed in English and they're going to add new score music. Why am I not surprise Quentin Tarantino is envolved in this uhhhh man. Another thing they are doing for the movie is a contest, ON YOUTUBE!!! and right now the trailer is on the front page. |I

[Yakuza954]

I don't care if they're editing it, this movie isn't that good to begin with. I saw an interview with the RZA and he said he liked the techno music used during the extreme sports scene, so I still expect the movie to have a soundtrack similar to the original. I think he did the soundtrack to the American release of Ong Bak, and it was pretty much the same as the original other than a rap song in the credits. BTW, the movie was going to get dubbed no matter what, but Weinsteins would be responsible for editing the movie not QT.

[Chen Zhen]

rza didnt score ong bak...he helped promote it i think, but i think thats as far as his involvement went.

[Liu chung liang]

Weinsteins would be responsible for editing the movie not QT.

involved as in representing it. I know he's not going to do any sort of editing on TYG. Look at the Iron Monkey release for the US... QT's name is on top of the DVD. The movie is re-scored and dubbed, but QT had nothing to do with it I'm sure. His name is just on the cover lol, and he has a interview on the disc.

[Yakuza954]

Word out of the grapevine is that The Protector aka Tom Yum Goong will be completely uncut.

[Yi Long]

'Uncut' in the smallest sense of of the worde, perhaps.
It will have a new score, and in my book, that's cut (thus no buy).

I dont care how bad the Thai version is/was. I've seen it on release day in HK, and yeah story-wise (and acting-wise) it's a bad movie. But I still want it in it's original form.

[Yakuza954]

well the movie is available elsewhere on DVD in its original form. So it's not like you can't see it that way.

[W Hong]

Last Sunday's L.A. Times newspaper said that today's U.S. release of "The Protector"("Tom Yum Goong") is going to be in Thai, English, Mandarin, and Vietnamese language w/ English subtitles.

The website address for the movie is "www.theprotectormovie.com", and when I saw the TV commercial for "TP" a few times, it was only on some cable TV channels. I don't think that I've seen the ad on any of the networks, but did any of you happen to see it on those particular channels? If not, then do you know why it's only shown on cable?

[udar55]

Word out of the grapevine is that The Protector aka Tom Yum Goong will be completely uncut.
Nope, it doesn't appear to be. The original running time is 109 minutes and a review in the paper today states this version runs 82 minutes. It seems the Weinsteins have set a new record for themselves in terms of cutting stuff (the previous record holder I believe was DUST DEVIL that had 22 minutes cut out).

[udar55]

THOSE BASTARDS!

I had the afternoon off so I checked out THE PROTECTOR at a 2:00 matinee. Not only is it cut to shreds so that it hardly makes sense, they cut stuff out of the fights!!! Now before I go on, I should say a majority of it remains but they cut stuff in the strangest little place. For example, they cut out Tony Jaa throwing the guy he gets the picture from out the window. Later, in the warehouse fight they cut the bit where he does the splits under that bar. It shows him slink through that narrow opening in the fence and then cuts to him doing his three point climb up the other fences. What the hell? In the final "Tony Jaa vs. 50 guys" fight, they cut various bit out of that too including my favorite bit where he takes the guy down by wrapping his leg around his throat. And they show the baby elephant being thrown but DON'T show it smashing through the glass. WTF!?!

But the worst is the print. For some reason they decided make it look stylish and gave the film a muted, bleached out color scheme a la Mel Gibson's PAYBACK. It makes the movie look absolutely terrible. Now I've seen several copies of the film on DVD and I can attest to the fact that it doesn't look like this. Hell, the TV ads and trailers didn't look like this. I have no idea whose creative decision that was but they should be shot. The review in my morning paper said, "Techinically the film looks like it was shot by amateurs." I wondered what they meant because I always thought it looked nice. But this print looks terrible.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that they actually make it look like Jaa's father is killed. Then he runs around the rest of the movie with subtitles saying, "You killed my father!"

[teako170]

What is the running time for the original Thai film? IMDb lists the run times as US: 109 min & Germany: 90 min. I want to buy the original Thai version but need to verify this first. Thanks.

[edit] Now, I just read the int'l version is 110 and the US is only 85?? Anyone clarify this mess?

[VenomsFan]

For some reason they decided make it look stylish and gave the film a muted, bleached out color scheme a la Mel Gibson's PAYBACK.

Maybe you saw a bootleg print! LMAO. No wait, then it would have been uncut. Honestly there is no reason, other than increasing the popularity by buying tickets, to watch these films in this way. Been out over a year no on DVD from orignal prints, score, scenes, etc. So don't look for the Weinsteins to show us anything similar. Just support the releases in the US.

[udar55]

Honestly there is no reason, other than increasing the popularity by buying tickets, to watch these films in this way.
Yeah, the only reason I went is to support Jaa's box office prospects in the US.

[udar55]

I've been able to compare it to my DVD and here are some other bits cut out (most of which were expected).

-the young Tony Jaa learning how to take down a tree from his elephant is gone.

-the elephant funeral is gone

-the bit where Jaa and his father go to the market and see the sign advertising for the elephant judging is missing.

-the dancing/prayer bit after the elephants are stolen is gone. This is where Jaa has a shot with his injured father.

-the people singing really badly in the scene of the first fight are no longer there.

-after the boat chase things got really screwy. They cut right to Jaa landing in Australia with a title saying "Australia. Two weeks later." The first news report from Australia is missing so we no longer see the people protesting the elephant situation.

-Tony Jaa getting his passport checked is missing, but the "Jackie Chan" cameo stays. He then gets in the taxi and the chase begins.

-Officer Mark is introduced when the cops chase the stolen taxi. His entire intro involving him going around Thai town and acting goofy is gone. So is the store robbery he stops (which will confuse people because the robber is the guy who kills the police commissioner later and Mark knows his name when he sees him). This whole section is the biggest missing bit and it might actually work better.

-the sequences are rearragned here so that after Jaa escapes the cops, they introduce Madame Rose. In the original Thai version she is introduced before Jaa lands in Australia. Here, she is introduced in between Jaa escaping from the cops and the warehouse fight. In the original version, Jaa escapes the cops and is immediately shown confronting Johnny on the bridge.

-the talk they have with the monk is missing.

-the US version offers no resolution for Johnny's character. The last time we see him is when Rose tells him to leave her bathroom. Gone is the ending where he shows up and kills the crooked cop while Mark holds him.

-the shots of Madam Rose imagining herself in the red ornate robe as if she were a queen when the skeleton is unvieled are gone.

There are probably tons of other bits gone but that is just want I can see by memory of the US version and watching the DVD.

[Yakuza954]

wow, looks like they actually found a way to make this film worse. Why cut out any of the fighting? Scared of a higher rating?

the US version offers no resolution for Johnny's character. The last time we see him is when Rose tells him to leave her bathroom. Gone is the ending where he shows up and kills the crooked cop while Mark holds him.
Johnny dosen't have a resolution in the original either. Yeah, he kills the crooked cop, but he says something about coming back and it seems like he'll also have a final fight with Tony Jaa, but it never happens.

[The Running Man]

It seems the Weinsteins have set a new record for themselves in terms of cutting stuff (the previous record holder I believe was DUST DEVIL that had 22 minutes cut out).

Accidental Spy beats that. Harvey had 24 minutes cut out of that movie. And the king at this point is Legend of Zu. That had at least 25 minutes cut out (and that's not even mentioning it being totally reworked).

wow, looks like they actually found a way to make this film worse.

Yeah, tell me about it. I've been hearing reports from people saying that it's somehow worse. I really don't know if that's possible, but hey...

Interesting story on this one fellas. Apparently, the film already had an international version prepared which was 15 minutes shorter. Harvey then took that very version and cut out an additional 10 minutes.

Amazing...I guess no one beats Harvey to the punch on cutting up Asian films.

And the fact that the fights themselves get cut up too is hilarious. I guess the editors were telling Harvey that he can't possibly cut out more footage from the movie so then he just had them cut the fight scenes just so something can get cut up.

Friggin' awesome.... :lol

BTW udar55,

Good job and thanks for offering what you can just from memory. :)

[udar55]

Thanks man. I try. And it does indeed look like LEGEND OF ZU is the cutting champ. What a dubious distinction.

Miramax/Dimension are notorious for cutting fight scenes. They did it with the Jackie Chan flicks such as OPERATION CONDOR. It is almost like they are egotistically saying, "Eh, it's good but we can do it better." Personally, I think Jackie knows his stuff.

[The Running Man]

A friend of mine fowarded me a list of some more alterations:

- After Kham's father gets shot, they cut the scene showing that he survives, and then purposely mistranslate the Thai spoken lines to say that he was killed.

- Pretty much all the comedic scenes with Petchtai Wongkamlao are cut. That whole scene where he is being interviewed by the news lady is gone. His partial English, partial Thai dialogue with his partner is nonexistent. Now almost everything he says is in English. The only exception is when he is speaking Thai to Kham in the police car.

- Madame Rose is no longer a transexual. They take that out completely. Her mob family doesn't want her to be the leader simply because she is a woman, not because she is a shemale.

- Sometimes they combined two scenes together. For example, you'd see parts of Kham at the religious ceremony after his elephants are stolen mixed with the band playing at his first fight scene. In this way, they shorten that whole segment.

- The movie begins with text telling the background of this Jaturangkabat (sp?) tradition.

- The ending doesn't have the monologue about elephants being respected in Thai culture. Instead they have replaced it with some English monologue that gives praises to the overall culture without even mentioning the elephants

[Liu chung liang]

>: i'm piss.

are the Weinstein trying to ruin Tony Jaa's career? the movie is not even long..... more cuts just kills the flick.

Jaa should be furious.

[The Running Man]

A follow up to my last post here:

I forgot to mention a theory that my friend gave. I mentioned to him about what was mentioned here about the color scheme being messed with and the film looking bad. He told me that it is true and he believes that they were trying to do what Tarantino and Robert Rodriguez are doing with their upcoming film Grindhouse by making Tom Yum Goong look like some old 70s kung fu film.

I suppose that's one of the reasons why Tarantino is "presenting" the movie. :rolleyes

[Chinatown Kid]

If that's true they have no business tampering with and altering someone else's film that they had nothing to do with, if they want to do that to their on films thats fine. I think Tarantino needs to stick to films like Pulp Fiction and the like which he excels in and stay the hell out of the martial arts genre because it's not his specialty. I admit liking Kill Bill, but not for the martial arts but because it was more of a campy spoof/homage.

[theportlykicker]

Man, I can't believe how much they've actually altered from what I've read here!>: They've really gone to town on it!

[udar55]

He told me that it is true and he believes that they were trying to do what Tarantino and Robert Rodriguez are doing with their upcoming film Grindhouse by making Tom Yum Goong look like some old 70s kung fu film.
That is a good point. It does appear they were trying to make it look like that. I'm surprised they didn't add film scratches.

Oh, I should point out an error I made. In another forum someone mentioned he is reunited with the baby elephant. It wasn't like that when I saw it but the end to me looked like something was cut out in the print I saw by the theater. It was a real abrupt cut of Jaa getting up and walking to a title card saying, "Starring Tony Jaa." I might go check it out again tonight to verify that (and to see it with a bigger crowd to gauge their reaction).

[Yi Long]

...about Weinsteins actually changing their ways.
Cant wait for the day they both die the most horrible death imagineable...

Anyway, Tony Jaa is in pretty close contact with his fanbase through fansites and stuff, right?
We should just bombard him with emails how much we love his work, and how we LOATHE that his work is being ruined by people like the Weinsteins and stuff...

Maybe he'll do a Miyazaki and demand that his movies will always be released uncut and subbed.

If he has any balls and any respect for his fans.

[kungfusamurai]

I didn't realize this was Tom Yum Goong (yeah, I'm really out of touch with the recent stuff)! Well, I went to see the movie, and boy did it suck. It didn't help that there was a dipshit who brought his pre-teen two kids who proceeded to talk loudly throughout the whole movie.

While the fights were pretty cool, as a whole, the movie was a chore to watch. The editing was terrible. The acting was terrible. The camerawork was terrible. And what was up with some people being dubbed in English one second, while subtitled the next. It didn't make any sense (Harvey Weinstein's fault?). I also found it annoying that the english speakers were speaking different words from how their mouths were moving. I take it the movie was shot old school HK indie style?

The long take was alright. I spotted it right away, even though usually I don't notice a long take until its almost over. I was impressed that Tony Jaa was able to keep going at a relatively good pace throughout the whole thing. I mean, in a long take like that, you increase the chances of someone getting seriously hurt if the person doing all of the fighting gets worn out early in the take. I could see that they mixed it up a bit where they had him bashing people's heads so he could recharge his batteries for the final 20 seconds or so.

Overall, the movie was pretty lame, but still worth checking out for the fight scenes. Too bad it was such a bad movie watching experience with those idiot kids talking in the theatre. I should have said something, but I just changed seats instead after putting up with it for most of the film. Oh well, enough of my grumbling.... :)

KFS

[Liu chung liang]

kungfusamurai you should watch the Original Thai uncut version... with English subtitles. I have the official Thai VCD version which is the best, but it has no subtitles. I ordered it long time ago, ...from Thailand :D . It was sweet, because I never ordered anything from Thailand before, and knowing Tony Jaa is from there. It was just... I don't know... special? lol. If you want to see it with english subs get the Korean version on DVD, but I don't know if that's uncut. The UK version though, is well recommended from the tonyjaa.org site, and they say it's uncut. You'll see how different it is from "The Protector".

I'm so PISS! at what the Weinstein Co. had done to the film. Those that said the film was weak... now it's weaker. I know some parts in the Original weren't that important. So it would had been fine if they knew which scenes to keep in and which scenes to dish out. What really gets to me is that... when the movie goes into certain fight scenes, they don't finish showing the full sequence and cut a little of the action out. Why the hell do that????? Jaa is known for his actions!
No wonder they re-named it "The Protector", because they changed the movie. It's like they made their own movie out of Tom Yum Goong.

I wonder if Tony Jaa knows about this.

[The Running Man]

Here's an interesting question.

Here's (http://youtube.com/watch?v=iUxAz-zUa04) the uncut version of the bone breaking scene.

And here's (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Del1aIZH07k) the uncut version of the warehouse fight.

Now, for anyone who has seen The Protector, can you look at that and point out which parts of those scenes were cut out?

I assume these were the fight scenes that were cut unless there were others as well.

[udar55]

I'm hopefully going to see it again this week so I will try to make as detailed list of the differences in that scene as possible.

[gfanikf]

I'm really not sure what was cut if anything from the fights and I've seen the protector twice in the last two days. The may have been something cut but it wasnt large enough to really stand out unless its mentioned specifically.

[Yi Long]

You are paying TWICE to go to the cinema to see an ass-raped and butchered movie!?

Way to go(!) Why not just send Harvey a check directly, telling him to keep doing what he's doing...!?

Dudes, stop giving this idiot your money. Instead, find a bootleg online and spread it among your friends (free) so they wont visit the cinema either to watch this crap...

[gfanikf]

I've seen the original Thai version as I've had a boot for atleast 6 months and dont particular care for the original version. I grew in to loving Hong Kong films from first seeing these edited versions in theatres such as Rumble in the Bronx and Supercop. I was happy finally being able to see it on the big screen and SUPPORT Tony Jaa. The more his films make the better funding his future ones will get and The Protector helped expose a crap load of people to TJ who really enojyed his work more than just a dvd-r would have. Ong Bak was fairly untouched in comparision and thanks to Magnolias ass backwards marketing and booking the Protector has already topped the entire run of OB. Hell I wouldn't be suprisied if the Protector is the highest grossing Thai film (Thai made) in US box office history.

Plus I'm picking up Kill Zone tomorrow so he can have more of my money and Police Story on November 4th :D Thankfully I dont have issues giving money to TWC if I'm happy with the product or if I wanted to see the film on the big screen (even if it is bizzarely edited)

[The Running Man]

Well, at the very least...can you call it "SPL" and not "Kill Zone"? :)

[gfanikf]

Running Man,

Very true I think I was using KZ as an easy way to refer to the R1. Oh here are some pics of SPL from the new DVD shows how the title was intergreated and such.

www.bulletsnbabesdvd.com/...c&start=40 (http://www.bulletsnbabesdvd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2410&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40)

[Liu chung liang]

hey Running Man, I got a confession :lol on that 'warehouse' clip that i called 'Search Turns Into A Chase'. I actually cut a tiny scene out from the beginning, if you notice. But I left all the action in, and I made it brighter so everyone can see it clearer. I know YouTube, and when you upload something there, the brightness and contrast are like on default. Many people on YouTube don't know that or maybe they just don't see it or don't care, but if you upload a scene from a movie, it's usually very dark. Anyway what I cut out was, when you see Jaa doing the jump turn kick in slow-motion, they show Johnny Nguyen next. He says something like "Make sure he's dead." ...That part I cut out. Because on my VCD, when anyone in the movie weren't speaking Thai, we see Thai subtitles on the bottom. :lol

[The Running Man]

hey Running Man, I got a confession on that 'warehouse' clip that i called 'Search Turns Into A Chase'. I actually cut a tiny scene out from the beginning, if you notice.

No I know you did. :)

It was really good editing too. Although when I first saw it, I wondered why was someone off screen yelling, "sh!t" during the clip. ;)

[Markgway]

I heard that "@#%$" too. What was going on? :\

[gfanikf]

just to repost since this seems to be the new thread

Also may be seeing it with friends for a third time tonight. Hey I dont get to see great MA (or really any) on the big screen that often

I have to say that I agree with everyone about the bizzare edits and weird films prints. However, I really didnt feels the fights were cut much (weird pans aside though) at least enought to bother me (I think the leg break maybe because of the MPAA I know why did all the other stuff get left in but hey its the MPAA). So many weird plot cuts and stuff made the film feel like it was on Meth (which in a way was a nice plus) but I never liked the Thai Directors cut of the human drama (besides the action with the elephent) so it didn't bother me as much but I can see how it can easily bother people.

HOWEVER that said, I saw the second coming of Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan tonight. I was at a 75% full showing at 10:45 in Downtown Philadelphia and people were in love with the both cheering for Tony, groaning at a bone crunch, going OMFG when TK first appeared and his three henchman and also during stunts and going nuts during certain moves during the orgy of the broken (TM). I have a feeling that Tony Jaa is going to start getting over very big in this country (Ong Bak laid the groundwork). I happy it was able to get in to theatres (alot more than Ong Bak ever could) even in this format as it exposed a lot of people to TJ and its only going to help in the future. Say what you will about TWC but they have the clout to get stuff in to a lot of theatres when they want to. That said Dragon Dynasty should definatly put both cuts of the film on the DVD because I have a feeling both will have there fans and it just makes sense in this day and age and there is no reason why not too.

So trust me go out and see the flick you may laugh at the edits and such but man will the action ensure you dont feel jipped at all. Don't miss this great expereince and bring some friends too.

[The Running Man]

I heard that "@#%$" too. What was going on?

It's from a missing shot of when the drug dealer leaves after seeing Tony Jaa coming in. I don't know how the audio was left in though.

[The Running Man]

I really didnt feels the fights were cut much (weird pans aside though) at least enought to bother me (I think the leg break maybe because of the MPAA I know why did all the other stuff get left in but hey its the MPAA).

The movie was rated R. That means that no action, including leg breaks, were cut because of the MPAA. It was cut cause someone wanted it cut down (obviously not ol 'Harvey).

[Linn1]

in France. Harvey bought the rights to distribute their version of the film, which was already cut. He just cut it some more.

[The Running Man]

Yeah, I mentioned that before on the first page:

Interesting story on this one fellas. Apparently, the film already had an international version prepared which was 15 minutes shorter. Harvey then took that very version and cut out an additional 10 minutes.

[gfanikf]

That makes more sense but remember the MPAA is weird, Kung Fu Hustle anyone?

[The Running Man]

BTW, for those that want this movie on a English language friendly DVD and totally uncut, then get your pre-order engines ready for the Oct. 30th release of Premier Asia's 2 disc DVD release of it.

[ShaofuSage]

I saw The Protector last night and in it's siginficantly shortened version it's like Tom Yum Goong on crack....the action is all there, with a barely noticable cuts (which makes no difference), but the storyline is chopped up to the point where you don't really notice it as the film takes you form one action piece to another. Overall, I was not disappointed and I hate to say this, but the movie may be better in its butchered state. Sadly, the theatre was empty on a wednesday night, so I couldn't really get a good idea of whether the other 9 people there were into the film. They were probably sitting there thinking...."I don't know what the f*ck is going on, but I like it".......Irrelevant of the irrelevant plot, we all know that 99% of movie goers have never seen action like that before, and even though after the film was over, most (like I) were left with an empty feeling, the action probably left an impact on everyone.

[The Running Man]

See, I believe with smart edits and alterations, the movie could be taken from "unwatchable" to "below average".

The thing is, Harvey shreded it so much to pieces that most are saying it's actually worse. It shows that he just doesn't really care about Asian films and has no idea what he is doing.

[ShaofuSage]

The reason that I don't think that the complete butchering of the storyline matters much is because it wasn't a good storyline in the first place. After hundreds of posts about the movie on this postboard we should be able to agree on one simple thing: Tom Yum Goong = great action + sh*tty story. Now, if the action was severily tampered with, then all hell needs to rain down upon the Weinsteins because this was what saved the film....or made it remotely watchable to some. But they messed with something that was already faulty, whether they made it better or worst, should not be that big of a deal cause the positive (action) is still there. On the whole, what the Weinsteins do to Asian cinema after they gain the rights is terrible; no one should be allowed to tamper with anothers work, but we all know that it's all about the money and not about artistic integrity. We have to live with what these goons do, even though we don't like it, and in this situation, and probably for the first time, I think they might have done the general public a favor. Tom Yum Goong on drugs may be better then it's sober counterpart.

[The Running Man]

The reason that I don't think that the complete butchering of the storyline matters much is because it wasn't a good storyline in the first place. After hundreds of posts about the movie on this postboard we should be able to agree on one simple thing: Tom Yum Goong = great action + sh*tty story.

It's not just sh*tty story but sh*tty film making period. The movie is horribly put together. Scenes begin and end with no real connection, characters come and go, dramatic scenes come forth as unintentionally hilarious, etc.... Prachya Pinkaew is an atrocious film maker. The fact that Tom Yum Goong makes his previous Ong Bak look like a legitimately good film says loads of how bad he is. He seriously is at the level of Uwe Bolls and the only thing that saves him from being seen as that is the fact that he has Tony Jaa.

I don't think the action in Tom Yum Goong saved the film. The film is so bad that it doesn't matter how good the action was. However, I think Tony Jaa is saving Pinkaew's ass right now from being truly seen as the talentless man he is.

Perhaps you are right that by deleting so much of the film's story, it made it better but only in the sense that you have to deal far less with the really bad parts of the film. But almost all opinion seems to indicate that it has made it even less credible (something I still find hard to believe). That's why I believe that Harvey Weinstein is an ass-hole because if he really did want to "improve" these films like he claims he does, then here was his opportunity to do it and instead he just cut the movie to absolute shreds like he always does.

I still believe though that the film could have been raised from a level of "total waste of celluloid" to "well it wasn't the worst piece of crap I have ever seen" with smart alterations.

[ShaofuSage]

I guess what it's all gonna have to come down to is what type of mindset each person goes into this film with and the threshold that they have for cinematic cheese. I can deal with completely non-sensical plots as long as I enjoy the action, so my thredhold is relatively high. With this film, I was expecting to see Jaa do some incredible ish, and he delivered, hence I was happy......my expectations were not high with regard to the film as a whole, thus I do not mind it's shortened version.

[Tosh]

Well, Jaa got my full attention today, went to see the Protector, the last day it was showing down by me, but before I strolled through Best Buy to see if there was any Image releases, there was the usual bs, American made ninja movies, CVD movies, and of course all the Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan movies we've seen a thousand times before, but to my surprise they had Spirited Killer, so I'll be watching it in the next day or two.

I'll stick to my guns and still say Tom Yum Goong(The Protector) was an inferior movie to Ong Bak on many levels, I watched a pretty poor version of it the first time around, so it was great to see it on the big screen, and I agree with everything everyone has said on the US version (not like the original wasn't a editing mess in the first place), but one thing that really ticks me off - they cut out the women doing the Thai dancing, I swear to christ, is our country devoid of all things cultured or something? With that being said it was still worth seeing on the big screen.

[Markgway]

Film opened at number four at the US box office, but disappeared out the top ten completely this week. I guess word of mouth saw it open strongly (for a Thai film with no names) but that's it.

[Senor Quack]

I don't think The Protector has done all that poorly all things considered. According to boxofficemojo, it currently sits at number 78 all time in the top 100 martial arts films released in the U.S. since 1980. Here's the list for those that are interested:

www.boxofficemojo.com/gen...alarts.htm (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/genres/chart/?pagenum=1&id=martialarts.htm)

It has grossed $9.47 million U.S. so far, which is more than 5 million more than Ong Bak.

The list is interesting and yes, there are some films on it that are questionable as to whether they should be called "Martial Arts".

[Liu chung liang]

Waw... Rush Hour 2... Rank number one. :lol

Going back to Jaa's protector. It's always on the bad story and good action. Remember that it is a Martial Art film, and if we don't see any martial art fights, it disappoints. Right?
What I like about MA films is never necessarily the story. It's usually the philosophy of their art and the intricate fights that interest me. :) Like some of Sammo Hung's films. 8)

[The Running Man]

Going back to Jaa's protector. It's always on the bad story and good action. Remember that it is a Martial Art film, and if we don't see any martial art fights, it disappoints. Right?

No. And even if so, there is a limit to how bad things can get outside the action. I've seen porn with better film making than Tom Yum Goong.

What I like about MA films is never necessarily the story. It's usually the philosophy of their art

None of that exists in Tom Yum Goong.

Like some of Sammo Hung's films.

Not even the worst piece of trash movie that Sammo Hung was ever in can compare to how badly Tom Yum Goong was handled.

[Liu chung liang]

No? wtf? What is it then that got so bad outside of the TYG action? The action and fights are good IMO. You don't have to be so picky.

None of that exists in Tom Yum Goong.

True. I was just telling about the MA films I enjoy. In TYG, they didn't go deep into Muay Thai or that bone breaking Muay Kotchasan technique.

Not even the worst piece of trash movie that Sammo Hung was ever in can compare to how badly Tom Yum Goong was handled.

Not true.... Flying Dragon, Leaping Tiger was handled pretty bad. I can't even watch it without falling asleep.

[The Running Man]

No? wtf? What is it then that got so bad outside of the TYG action? The action and fights are good IMO. You don't have to be so picky.

It ain't about being picky man. It's about being reasonable. Tom Yum Goong outside of action was embarrassing. It was quite horrible. This thing about people saying that, "It's an action movie...what did you expect? We don't watch this for the story!" is bull. It's even more bull when you have a movie as god awful as Tom Yum Goong. There are limits to how bad something can get before you cannot excuse it anymore.

I am not asking for Goodfellas level of genuine character study and drama for Tom Yum Goong. But something that is at the very least reasonable that I can watch the movie and buy into it. Not something so bad that I actually get depressed thinking about how many good ideas for action have been wasted in such a crappy movie.

Not true.... Flying Dragon, Leaping Tiger was handled pretty bad. I can't even watch it without falling asleep.

Flying Dragon, Leaping Tiger looks like Raging Bull when compared to Tom Yum Goong as a whole movie.

[Chen Zhen]

It ain't about being picky man. It's about being reasonable. Tom Yum Goong outside of action was embarrassing. It was quite horrible. This thing about people saying that, "It's an action movie...what did you expect? We don't watch this for the story!" is bull. It's even more bull when you have a movie as god awful as Tom Yum Goong. There are limits to how bad something can get before you cannot excuse it anymore.

I am not asking for Goodfellas level of genuine character study and drama for Tom Yum Goong. But something that is at the very least reasonable that I can watch the movie and buy into it. Not something so bad that I actually get depressed thinking about how many good ideas for action have been wasted in such a crappy movie.

despite all the times me n Running Man have disagreed on an assortment of topics...i agree 150% there. TYG is just bad filmmaking, save for the action. i personally dont believe in that "its a martial arts film, so its ok that everything else about it is crap" logic. i dont like paying for a movie just for the 15 or 20 minutes of action, i want the full experience. like RM sed, i also dont expect OldBoy in terms of direction or even plot...but i expect to be able to watch a movie without reaching for my fast forward button constantly. the best thing that Tony Jaa and Panna Rittikrai can do is to leave that hack director alone. to be fair, Ong Bak, was acceptable in its filmmaking. it kept it simple and it didnt take itself seriously. TYG TRIED to be more than what i was, and it failed. miserably i may add.

[Liu chung liang]

it doesn't matter if you consider it a MA film or not, but we do see MA fights, and a lot of action. that's the good. they deliver.

the bad? ....@#%$, i guess you can say everything else in TYG is crap. hmmm don't forget the bad acting as well. :lol

but the movie as Jaa's 2nd leading role... it's not that terrible. i still say Sammo's Flying Dragon, Leaping Tiger is worse. Avenging Fist, with Sammo and Biao again... that sucked too. i would watch TYG over these two flicks anyday.

[Chen Zhen]

when i watch a "movie", regardless of the genre, i expect to be entertained in a 'complete' manner. like i sed, i dont expect a Quentin Tarantino script from a kf movie, but i expect something at least reasonable that can hold my attention and i expect to connect in some way with the characters. i didnt care about any of the characters in the least, or the elephants. the only character i cared for was jaa..and thats only cuz hes tony jaa. i havent seen flying dragon, leaping tiger or avenging fist...i dont doubt that theyre bad..but those flix being bad doesnt make tyg any better. jaa's second acting role was the best acting in the full movie...that aint sayin much! to be fair, his acting did improve quite a bit from ong bak...he still has a far way to go tho..