The Offical Shaws Dub Thread

[gfanikf]

Very fun Beardy flick (complete with random nudity and fun canto pop) wondering if it was ever dubbed by the Shaws for export.

Actually does anyone have a list of Shaw flicks that were dubbed and which weren't

[sevenhooks]

Not sure about that one.

There was a list going around a few years back that apparently named all films that were dubbed in english by the Shaws.
Not sure how valid that list was though.
I seem to remember some people on this very board disputing it's validity.

I know they were dubbing their films up until the very end so it's possible that Secret Service was dubbed.
(I say that since I remember seeing a Shaw catalog which listed some films available like Young Vagabond & Opium & The Kung Fu Master. Both of which were, according to the catalog, available in english dubbed versions).

[Linn1]

every kung fu film and swordplay film was SUPPOSEDLY dubbed for export, not just to the US, but other coutries in English. Having said that, I can tell you for a FACT that the Shaws did NOT hold on to most of the dubs. Please remember, to do so would mean that all the different dubbed (not just English) versions would have had to be stored along with the native soundtracks. Meaning it would have been an unheard of bit of storage for an Asian film studio of that time.

And Seven, you saw a pretty rare list there. Young Vagabond, Opium & The Kung Fu Master, Spiritual Boxer, Eagle Swordsman, and others were dubbed for the final run of Black Belt Theater. The "set" stopped airing about 25% through when their contract ran out with the Shaws with Shaolin Intruders escaping before the axe fell. The existing dubbed prints were stolen and in the hands of some World Northal people, including a few "lost" dubs. At this point, they are most likely really lost as the people got rid of them long ago via selling to collectors or they are setting in someones basement.

[gfanikf]

So is there any chance someone saved that list? :)

Thanks for the info Linn

[Linn1]

Here's the list Jumper did a while back. I will say, I don't know if these were all in fact dubbed. But considering I've seen a bit of Opera dubbed from 1960 or so, I don't count anything out.

YEAR GENRE TITLE



1959 GHOST ENCHANTING SHADOW (B/W)
1959 DRAMA REAR ENTRANCE (B/W)
1960 COMEDY FAIR SEX (B/W)
1961 ROMANCE LOVE WITHOUT END (B/W)
1962 DRAMA SECOND SPRING (B/W)
1963 DRAMA BETWEEN TEARS AND SMILES (B/W)
1964 DRAMA MONKEY GOES WEST
1966 MARTIAL ARTS COME DRINK WITH ME
1967 MARTIAL ARTS TRAIL OF THE BROKEN BLADE
1967 MARTIAL ARTS ONE-ARMED SWORDSMAN
1967 MARTIAL ARTS ASSASSIN
1968 MARTIAL ARTS GOLDEN SWALLOW
1968 MARTIAL ARTS BELLS OF DEATH
1968 MARTIAL ARTS SWORD OF SWORDS
1968 MARTIAL ARTS FLYING DAGGER
1968 MARTIAL ARTS RETURN OF THE ONE-ARMED SWORDSMAN
1969 DRAMA DEAD END
1969 ACTION SINGING KILLER
1969 MARTIAL ARTS VENGEANCE IS A GOLDEN BLADE
1969 MARTIAL ARTS RAW COURAGE
1969 MARTIAL ARTS HAVE SWORD WILL TRAVEL
1970 ACTION SINGING THIEF
1970 MARTIAL ARTS MING DYNASTY
1970 DRAMA VALLEY OF THE FANGS
1970 MARTIAL ARTS HEADS FOR SALE
1970 MARTIAL ARTS VENGEANCE
1970 MARTIAL ARTS HEROIC ONES
1970 MARTIAL ARTS CHINESE BOXER
1971 MARTIAL ARTS LADY HERMIT
1971 MARTIAL ARTS KING EAGLE
1971 MARTIAL ARTS NEW ONE-ARMED SWORDSMAN
1971 MARTIAL ARTS DUEL OF THE IRON FISTS
1971 ACTION LADY PROFESSIONAL
1971 MARTIAL ARTS ANONYMOUS HEROES
1971 ACTION DUEL FOR GOLD
1971 ACTION DUEL OF FISTS
1971 MARTIAL ARTS DEADLY DUO
1971 MARTIAL ARTS KILLER
1972 MARTIAL ARTS ANGRY GUEST
1972 MARTIAL ARTS BOXER FROM SHANTUNG
1972 MARTIAL ARTS 7 BLOWS OF THE DRAGON
1972 DRAMA CASINO
1972 MARTIAL ARTS KING BOXER
1972 MARTIAL ARTS FIST OF VENGEANCE
1972 MARTIAL ARTS 14 AMAZONS
1972 ADULT INTIMATE CONFESSIONS OF A CHINESE
COURTESAN
1972 MARTIAL ARTS DELIGHTFUL FOREST
1972 MARTIAL ARTS TRILOGY OF SWORDSMANSHIP
1972 MARTIAL ARTS THUNDERBOLT FIST
1972 MARTIAL ARTS MAN OF IRON
1972 MARTIAL ARTS LIZARD
1972 ACTION 4 RIDERS
1972 MARTIAL ARTS CHAMPION
1973 YOUNG REBELS
1973 DRAMA STREET GANGS OF HONG KONG
1973 MARTIAL ARTS BLOOD BROTHERS
1973 HORROR KISS OF DEATH
1973 ACTION BASTARD
1973 ACTION POLICE FORCE
1973 ACTION BIG FELLOW
1973 MARTIAL ARTS PIRATE
1973 MARTIAL ARTS IRON BODYGUARD
1973 MARTIAL ARTS MASTER OF KUNG FU
1973 ACTION GAMBLING SYNDICATE
1973 MARTIAL ARTS 7 SOLDIERS OF KUNG FU
1973 MARTIAL ARTS HEROES TWO
1973 DRAMA GENERATION GAP
1973 ADULT BAMBOO HOUSE OF DOLLS
1974 DRAMA DRUG ADDICT
1974 MARTIAL ARTS KILLER SNAKES
1974 MARTIAL ARTS SAVAGE 5
1974 MARTIAL ARTS MEN FROM THE MONASTERY
1974 ACTION BLOODY ESCAPE
1974 MARTIAL ARTS SHAOLIN MARTIAL ARTS
1974 FANTASY NA CHA THE GREAT
1974 MARTIAL ARTS KUNG FU HELLCATS
1974 MARTIAL ARTS FLYING GUILLOTINE
1974 DRAMA QUEEN HUSTLER
1974 MARTIAL ARTS 5 SHAOLIN MASTERS
1975 MARTIAL ARTS BOXER REBELLION
1975 MARTIAL ARTS DISCIPLES OF SHAOLIN
1975 ACTION SUPER INFRAMAN
1975 ADULT BLACK MAGIC
1975 MARTIAL ARTS MARCO POLO
1975 MARTIAL ARTS SPIRITUAL BOXER
1975 MARTIAL ARTS BRUCE LEE & I
1976 MARTIAL ARTS 7 MAN ARMY
1976 ACTION SEXY KILLER
1976 MARTIAL ARTS KILLER CLANS
1976 MARTIAL ARTS INVINCIBLE KUNG FU BROTHERS
1976 MARTIAL ARTS DRAGON MISSILE
1976 MARTIAL ARTS CHALLENGE OF THE MASTERS
1976 KILLER ON WHEELS
1976 MARTIAL ARTS MAGIC BLADE
1976 ADULT BLACK MAGIC 2
1976 MARTIAL ARTS NEW SHAOLIN BOXER
1976 MARTIAL ARTS SHAOLIN TEMPLE
1976 MARTIAL ARTS WEB OF DEATH
1976 MARTIAL ARTS MAGNIFICENT WANDERERS
1976 MARTIAL ARTS EXECUTIONERS FROM SHAOLIN
1976 DRAMA THE CONDEMNED
1977 ACTION LADY EXTERMINATOR
1977 ACTION JUDGEMENT OF AN ASSASSIN
1977 DRAMA FANGS OF THE COBRA
1977 ADULT MYSTERIOUS LADY KILLER
1977 THRILLER DEADLY ANGELS
1977 MARTIAL ARTS NAVAL COMMANDOS
1977 DRAMA MIGHTY PEKING MAN
1977 MARTIAL ARTS FLYING GUILLOTINE 2
1977 MARTIAL ARTS BATTLE WIZARD
1977 MARTIAL ARTS BRAVE ARCHER
1977 MARTIAL ARTS CHINATOWN KID
1977 MARTIAL ARTS 36TH CHAMBER OF SHAOLIN
1978 CRIME CLAN OF AMAZONS
1978 MARTIAL ARTS LIFE COMBAT
1978 MARTIAL ARTS BRAVE ARCHER 2
1978 MARTIAL ARTS SHAOLIN MANTIS
1978 MARTIAL ARTS SHAOLIN HANDLOCK
1978 MARTIAL ARTS LEGEND OF THE BAT
1978 DRAMA GODFATHER'S FURY
1978 MARTIAL ARTS 5 VENOMS
1978 MARTIAL ARTS AVENGING EAGLE
1978 ACTION HEAVEN & HELL
1978 MARTIAL ARTS INVINCIBLE SHAOLIN
1978 MARTIAL ARTS CRIPPLED AVENGERS
1978 MARTIAL ARTS SHAOLIN CHALLENGES NINJA
1979 MARTIAL ARTS FULL MOON SCIMITAR
1979 MARTIAL ARTS DEADLY BREAKING SWORD
1979 MARTIAL ARTS SHAOLIN RESCUERS
1979 MARTIAL ARTS STROKE OF DEATH
1979 MARTIAL ARTS KUNG FU INSTRUCTOR
1979 MARTIAL ARTS DAREDEVILS OF KUNG FU
1979 MARTIAL ARTS SHAOLIN ABBOT
1979 MARTIAL ARTS PROUD TWINS
1979 MARTIAL ARTS DIRTY HO
1979 MARTIAL ARTS 5 SUPER FIGHTERS
1979 MARTIAL ARTS KID WITH THE GOLDEN ARM
1979 MARTIAL ARTS TIGRESS OF SHAOLIN
1979 MARTIAL ARTS MAGNIFICENT RUFFIANS
1979 MARTIAL ARTS MURDER PLOT
1979 MARTIAL ARTS MAD MONKEY KUNG FU
1979 MARTIAL ARTS INVINCIBLE ENFORCER
1979 MARTIAL ARTS FIST OF THE WHITE LOTUS
1980 MARTIAL ARTS KILLER ARMY
1980 MARTIAL ARTS IRON CHAIN ASSASSIN
1980 MARTIAL ARTS KILLER CONSTABLE
1980 MARTIAL ARTS 2 CHAMPIONS OF SHAOLIN
1980 MARTIAL ARTS 3 EVIL MASTERS
1980 ACTION COWARD BASTARD
1980 MARTIAL ARTS KID WITH A TATTOO
1980 MARTIAL ARTS BOXER FROM THE TEMPLE
1980 MARTIAL ARTS 10 TIGERS OF KWANTUNG
1980 MARTIAL ARTS HEROES SHED NO TEARS
1980 MARTIAL ARTS FLAG OF IRON
1980 MARTIAL ARTS RETURN TO THE 36TH CHAMBER
1980 MARTIAL ARTS RETURN OF THE SENTIMENTAL SWORDSMAN
1980 MARTIAL ARTS RENDEZVOUS WITH DEATH
1980 ACTION LOST SOULS
1980 MARTIAL ARTS MY YOUNG AUNTIE
1981 MARTIAL ARTS MARTIAL CLUB
1981 MARTIAL ARTS ROAR OF THE LION
1981 WHAT PRICE HONESTY
1981 MARTIAL ARTS MASKED AVENGERS
1981 MARTIAL ARTS TREASURE HUNTERS
1981 MARTIAL ARTS HOUSE OF TRAPS
1981 DRAMA BLACK LIZARD
1981 MARTIAL ARTS BRAVE ARCHER 3
1981 MARTIAL ARTS PERILS OF THE SENTIMENTAL SWORDSMAN
1982 MARTIAL ARTS LEGENDARY WEAPONS OF KUNG FU
1982 MARTIAL ARTS BRAVE ARCHER AND HIS MATE
1982 MARTIAL ARTS SUPER NINJAS
1982 MARTIAL ARTS KID FROM KWANTUNG
1982 MARTIAL ARTS BUDDHA'S PALM
1982 DRAMA WEIRD MAN
1982 DRAMA MY REBELLIOUS SON
1982 MARTIAL ARTS SHAOLIN PRINCE
1982 HORROR MERCENARIES FROM HONG KONG
1983 MARTIAL ARTS HOLY FLAME OF THE MARTIAL WORLD
1983 MARTIAL ARTS SHAOLIN INTRUDERS
1983 MARTIAL ARTS 8 DIAGRAM POLE FIGHTERS
1984 MARTIAL ARTS OPIUM AND THE KUNG FU MASTER
1984 MARTIAL ARTS DISCIPLES OF THE 36TH CHAMBER
1985 MARTIAL ARTS YOUNG VAGABOND
1985 MARTIAL ARTS MARTIAL ARTS OF SHAOLIN
1993 MARTIAL ARTS BAREFOOTED KID
1997 MARTIAL ARTS HERO

[sevenhooks]

Having said that, I can tell you for a FACT that the Shaws did NOT hold on to most of the dubs. Please remember, to do so would mean that all the different dubbed (not just English) versions would have had to be stored along with the native soundtracks. Meaning it would have been an unheard of bit of storage for an Asian film studio of that time.




Just curious, but why would they hold on to ANY of the dubs if not all of them?
Just trying to make sense of that logic.
I mean, what you're saying explains why for some of the Siren releases for example, you have dub tracks and for some you don't.

Invincible Shaolin: DUB
Two Champions of Shaolin: DUB
Magic Blade: DUB
The Master: NO DUB

But the lack of dub of The Master kind of surprised me since I know that one had existed before.
And it's not like the movie was THAT old that it might have suffered more damage than other films (Magic Blade being a few years older than The Master for instance).
Just trying to understand what Shaw's method (if any) there was when it came to storing the dubs.
Why store some & not others?

[Linn1]

as to why their copy of Tiger Boy is dust, and films from 1955 they have look great? The answer is simple, the Shaws didn't know what the hell they were doing. And though I HATE the thought with a passion, I can't truly blame them, as film preservation wasn't even thought of until the mid-'90s in HK and even good prints of films made around that time can't be found! The dubs that survived, survived largely by chance. Which is also why you have a dub for Magic Blade, but not one for The Master and others.

[bobo]

can they not take the english dub off a vhs or dvd-r somehow and use that. i,m sure they must have the best equipment available. afterall i think the english dub of THREE EVIL MASTERS Iis still quite clear.

[Linn1]

and they have. I don't really understand why Siren didn't do that, unless they didn't know or didn't think it was worth it. Also, just to be clear, Celestial still does own all rights to the English dub tracks. Companies wishing to put out Shaw Brothers titles must buy the rights to the original dubs as well (if they want them).

[jumper5836]

Proabably because there are areas where there is not english dub.
They would have had to cut those areas out.

[iron flag]

Or just leave those parts in Chinese. I can think of 2 dubs I have(MOtFG and Avenging Eagle) that have a few parts w/ Chinese, its not that bad.

[Linn1]

and most places I THINK whould have gone that route.

[gfanikf]

Its a shame some of those dubs are lost but I would love to hear the Hungmei Oprea one with the dialogue dubbed and the songs undubbed.

The porno ones must be pretty funny to :rollin

Seriously that listis interesting and leads me to think with some much know on what was dubbed. Do we have info on WHO dubbed it either names or a studio. I mean contracts and pay records must exist (although I doubt the Shaws would share those records).

If anyone could ever get an interview and photos of the any of the legendardy "7 guys and gals who dubbed kung fu" it would be a HUGE coup. Even if you a sub only fan I bet you would still read it.

[sevenhooks]

Theres an interview with one of those original "dub guys" in an older issue of Giant Robot.
Pretty interesting.

[gfanikf]

Cool

Any chance someone could scan it or let me know what issue it was?

[sevenhooks]

If I still have the issue I'll try and scan it later tonight.

[gfanikf]

Thanks man I owe you one

[deliriocaldo]

Here are the 166 titles which were mentioned as available "with english optical track" in an early listing of the 760 Shaw films Celestial acquired:

48* * * * 164009* * * * Monkey Goes West, The
89* * * * 167003* * * * Trail Of The Broken Blade, The
101* * * * 167015* * * * One-armed Swordsman, The
112* * * * 167026* * * * Assassin, The
124* * * * 168006* * * * Golden Swallow
129* * * * 168011* * * * Bells Of Death, The
134* * * * 168016* * * * Sword Of Swords, The
137* * * * 168019* * * * Flying Dagger, The
147* * * * 168029* * * * Return Of The One-armed Swordsman
158* * * * 169009* * * * Vengeance Is A Golden Blade
166* * * * 169018* * * * Raw Courage
181* * * * 169033* * * * Have Sword Will Travel
187* * * * 170002* * * * Valley Of The Fangs
190* * * * 170005* * * * Heads For Sale
193* * * * 170009* * * * Vengeance
204* * * * 170020* * * * Heroic Ones, The
221* * * * 171002* * * * Lady Hermit, The
222* * * * 171003* * * * New One-armed Swordsman, The
225* * * * 171006* * * * Duel, The
234* * * * 171015* * * * Lady Professional, The
239* * * * 171020* * * * Anonymous Heroes, The
240* * * * 171021* * * * Duel For Gold
245* * * * 171026* * * * Duel Of Fist
252* * * * 171034* * * * Deadly Duo, The
253* * * * 171035* * * * Killer, The
258* * * * 172004* * * * Angry Guest, The
259* * * * 172005* * * * Boxer From Shantung
261* * * * 172007* * * * Water Margin, The
262* * * * 172008* * * * Casino, The
264* * * * 172010* * * * King Boxer, The
271* * * * 172017* * * * Fist Of Vengence
275* * * * 172021* * * * 14 Amazons, The
276* * * * 172022* * * * Intimate Confessions of a Chinese Courtesan
279* * * * 172025* * * * Delightful Forest, The
281* * * * 172027* * * * Thunderbolt Fist
282* * * * 172028* * * * Man Of Iron
283* * * * 172029* * * * Lizard, The
286* * * * 172032* * * * Four Riders
287* * * * 172033* * * * Champion
288* * * * 173001* * * * Delinquent, The
292* * * * 173005* * * * Blood Brothers
299* * * * 173012* * * * Kiss Of Death
303* * * * 173016* * * * Bastard, The
304* * * * 173018* * * * Police Force
305* * * * 173019* * * * Big Fellow, The
308* * * * 173022* * * * Pirate, The
312* * * * 173026* * * * Iron Bodyguard
314* * * * 173028* * * * Master Of Kung Fu, The
319* * * * 173033* * * * Gambling Syndicate, The
320* * * * 173034* * * * All Men Are Brothers
324* * * * 173038* * * * Heroes Two
325* * * * 173039* * * * Bamboo House Of Dolls, The
328* * * * 174002* * * * Killer Snakes, The
329* * * * 174003* * * * Savage Five, The
334* * * * 174008* * * * Men From The Monastery
341* * * * 174017* * * * Bloody Escape, The
346* * * * 174024* * * * Shaolin Martial Arts
353* * * * 174031* * * * Na Cha The Great
356* * * * 174034* * * * Five Tough Guys
359* * * * 174037* * * * Flying Guillotine, The
364* * * * 174043* * * * Queen Hustler
366* * * * 174046* * * * Five Shaolin Masters
373* * * * 175004* * * * Boxer Rebellion
382* * * * 175014* * * * Disciples Of Shaolin
387* * * * 175020* * * * Super Inframan
393* * * * 175026* * * * Black Magic
398* * * * 175031* * * * Marco Polo
399* * * * 175032* * * * Spiritual Boxer, The
405* * * * 175038* * * * Bruce Lee And I
409* * * * 176002* * * * Seven Man Army
410* * * * 176003* * * * Sexy Killer, The
414* * * * 176007* * * * Killer Clans
415* * * * 176008* * * * Shaolin Avengers, The
416* * * * 176009* * * * Dragon Missile, The
419* * * * 176012* * * * Challenge Of The Masters
427* * * * 176020* * * * Killers On Wheels
429* * * * 176022* * * * Magic Blade, The
431* * * * 176024* * * * Black Magic Part 2
432* * * * 176025* * * * New Shaolin Boxers, The
439* * * * 176033* * * * Shaolin Temple
441* * * * 176035* * * * Web Of Death
444* * * * 176038* * * * Magnificent Wanderers, The
446* * * * 176040* * * * Executioners From Shaolin
447* * * * 177001* * * * Lady Exterminator
451* * * * 177005* * * * Fangs Of The Cobra
454* * * * 177008* * * * Mysterious Lady Killer, The
455* * * * 177009* * * * Deadly Angels
457* * * * 177011* * * * Naval Commandos, The
458* * * * 177012* * * * Mighty Peking Man, The
462* * * * 177016* * * * Flying Guillotine Part 2
463* * * * 177017* * * * Battle Wizard, The
465* * * * 177019* * * * Brave Archer, The
478* * * * 177032* * * * Chinatown Kid
482* * * * 177036* * * * 36th Chamber Of Shaolin, The
485* * * * 178001* * * * Clan Of Amazons
487* * * * 178003* * * * Life Gamble
494* * * * 178011* * * * Brave Archer Part 2, The
496* * * * 178013* * * * Shaolin Mantis
497* * * * 178014* * * * Shaolin Handlock
498* * * * 178015* * * * Legend Of The Bat
499* * * * 178016* * * * Godfather's Fury
502* * * * 178019* * * * Five Venoms, The
507* * * * 178024* * * * Avenging Eagle, The
514* * * * 178031* * * * Heaven And Hell
515* * * * 178032* * * * Invincible Shaolin
519* * * * 178036* * * * Crippled Avengers
520* * * * 178037* * * * Heroes Of The East
523* * * * 179001* * * * Full Moon Scimitar
526* * * * 179004* * * * Deadly Breaking Sword, The
527* * * * 179005* * * * Shaolin Rescuers
531* * * * 179011* * * * Monkey Kung Fu
536* * * * 179016* * * * Kung-fu Instructor, The
538* * * * 179018* * * * Daredevils, The
539* * * * 179019* * * * Abbot of Shaolin
540* * * * 179020* * * * Proud Twins, The
541* * * * 179021* * * * Dirty Ho
542* * * * 179022* * * * Five Superfighters
543* * * * 179023* * * * Kid With The Golden Arm, The
546* * * * 179026* * * * Tigress Of Shaolin, The
547* * * * 179027* * * * Magnificent Ruffians, The
548* * * * 179028* * * * Mad Monkey Kung Fu
549* * * * 179029* * * * Invincible Enforcer
554* * * * 179034* * * * Clan Of The White Lotus
555* * * * 180001* * * * Rebel Intruders, The
556* * * * 180002* * * * Convict Killer, The
557* * * * 180003* * * * Killer Constable
562* * * * 180008* * * * Two Champions Of Shaolin
563* * * * 180009* * * * Master, The
564* * * * 180010* * * * Coward Bastard
566* * * * 180012* * * * Kid With A Tattoo, The
567* * * * 180013* * * * Boxer From The Temple, The
568* * * * 180014* * * * Ten Tigers Of Kwang Tung
571* * * * 180017* * * * Heroes Shed No Tears
572* * * * 180018* * * * Flag Of Iron, The
573* * * * 180019* * * * Return To The 36TH Chamber
574* * * * 180020* * * * Return Of The Sentimental Swordsman
576* * * * 180022* * * * Rendezvous With Death
582* * * * 180028* * * * Lost Souls
585* * * * 180031* * * * My Young Auntie
588* * * * 181003* * * * Martial Club
589* * * * 181004* * * * Lion VS Lion
593* * * * 181008* * * * What Price Honesty
594* * * * 181009* * * * Masked Avengers
602* * * * 181017* * * * Treasure Hunters, The
610* * * * 181025* * * * House Of Traps
614* * * * 181029* * * * Black Lizard, The
616* * * * 181031* * * * Brave Archer Part 3, The
618* * * * 181033* * * * Perils Of The Sentimental Swordsman
619* * * * 182001* * * * Legendary Weapons Of China
621* * * * 182003* * * * Brave Archer And His Mate
624* * * * 182006* * * * Five Elements Ninjas
634* * * * 182016* * * * Kid From Kwangtung
637* * * * 182019* * * * Buddha's Palm
640* * * * 182022* * * * Weird Man, The
647* * * * 182029* * * * My Rebellious Son
650* * * * 182032* * * * Shaolin Prince
651* * * * 182033* * * * Mercenaries From Hong Kong
661* * * * 183008* * * * Holy Flame Of The Martial World
669* * * * 183016* * * * Shaolin Intruders
677* * * * 183024* * * * 8 Diagram Pole Fighter, The
686* * * * 184009* * * * Opium And The Kung Fu Master
688* * * * 184011* * * * Disciples Of The 36TH Chamber
728* * * * 185021* * * * Young Vagabond, The
729* * * * 485001* * * * Martial Arts Of Shaolin
746* * * * 293001* * * * Bare-Footed Kid, The
756* * * * 197001* * * * Hero

I did a quick cross-check with the other list, and here are the differences:

- all of the b/w films are missing. I think this was a mistake on the list posted above, because Celestial marked their b/w films in a way looking quite similar to the way they marked films with english dubs.

the following films are also missing on celestial's list:
- 1966 MARTIAL ARTS COME DRINK WITH ME
- 1969 DRAMA DEAD END
- 1969 ACTION SINGING KILLER
- 1970 ACTION SINGING THIEF
- 1970 MARTIAL ARTS MING DYNASTY
- 1970 MARTIAL ARTS CHINESE BOXER
- 1971 MARTIAL ARTS KING EAGLE
- 1972 MARTIAL ARTS TRILOGY OF SWORDSMANSHIP
- 1973 YOUNG REBELS
- 1973 DRAMA GENERATION GAP
- 1974 DRAMA DRUG ADDICT
- 1976 DRAMA THE CONDEMNED
- 1977 ACTION JUDGEMENT OF AN ASSASSIN
- 1979 MARTIAL ARTS MURDER PLOT

Some of these films - CHINESE BOXER, for example - definitely were dubbed, so it's up to question whether these dubs are lost or just ommited from this (early) list...

[gfanikf]

Thanks so much for the list.

Odd I guess SS was not dubbed. However the list mentions The Master yet we know Celstial didnt have one for the Siren release.

This Mystery deepens.

[Frank Lakatos]

Hong Kong Godfather was dubbed I heard. Flashlegs Pete Jr. said something about it in the past if I am not mistakened, that he was looking for the dub. But, Hong Kong Godfather is omitted from the dub list. Pursuit of a Killer and This Man is Dangerous are also omitted in the list. Even if they are omitted from the list, could these movies have been dubbed? Most of their movies in the 80's were omitted. Most of these movies had to do with stories in modern Hong kong, which pronbably wasn't as marketable as colorful or kung fu sword movie. Why does this list omit the dubs of the 80's Shaw movies?

Frank

[sevenhooks]

Good question.

To make matters even more confusing, I have it on good account that BASTARD SWORDSMAN was dubbed in english and was part of World Northal's last Black Belt Theater package.
However, that film is not on the list either.

The plot thickens!

[Frank Lakatos]

I give all of my respect and thanks for those that put the lists up again, but I just don't trust them. I have this feeling that the Shaws dubbed all of their movies, because the Shaws always had high standards. The dubs do exist, it's just that non kung fu collectors have them and don't know about us interested Shaw fans. Some may want to sell while others looks at these reels as a part of American television history. That's what those older middle class American film reel collectors would do. The answer is in America this time I think.

Frank

[jumper5836]

I know all these (94) have english dubs, since I have them.

36TH CHAMBER OF SHAOLIN
ANGRY GUEST
AVENGING EAGLE
BAREFOOTED KID
BAMBOO HOUSE OF DOLLS
BATTLE WIZARD
BELLS OF DEATH
BLOOD BROTHERS
BOXER FROM SHANTUNG
BOXER FROM THE TEMPLE
BOXER REBELLION
BRAVE ARCHER
BRAVE ARCHER 2
BRAVE ARCHER 3
BRUCE LEE & I
CHALLENGE OF THE MASTERS
CHINATOWN KID
CHINESE BOXER
CRIPPLED AVENGERS
DAREDEVILS OF KUNG FU
DEADLY DUO
DELIGHTFUL FOREST
DELINQUENTS
DIRTY HO
DISCIPLES OF SHAOLIN
DUEL OF FISTS
DUEL, THE
EIGHT DIAGRAM POLE FIGHTERS
EXECUTIONERS FROM SHAOLIN
FIST OF THE WHITE LOTUS
FIVE SHAOLIN MASTERS
FIVE SUPER FIGHTERS
FIVE VENOMS
FLAG OF IRON
FLYING GUILLOTINE
FLYING GUILLOTINE 2
FOUR RIDERS
HEAVEN AND HELL
HERO
HEROES TWO
HEROIC ONES
INVINCIBLE SHAOLIN
IRON CHAIN ASSASSIN
KID WITH A TATTOO
KID WITH THE GOLDEN ARM
KILLER
KILLER ARMY
KILLER CONSTABLE
KING BOXER
KUNG FU INSTRUCTOR
LEGEND OF THE BAT
LEGENDARY WEAPONS OF KUNG FU
LIFE COMBAT
MAD MONKEY KUNG FU
MAGIC BLADE
MAGNIFICENT RUFFIANS
MAGNIFICENT WANDERERS
MAN OF IRON
MARCO POLO
MARTIAL ARTS OF SHAOLIN
MARTIAL CLUB
MASKED AVENGERS
MASTER OF KUNG FU
MEN FROM THE MONASTERY
MONKEY KUNG FU
MY YOUNG AUNTIE
NA CHA THE GREAT
NAVAL COMMANDOS
NEW ONE-ARMED SWORDSMAN
NEW SHAOLIN BOXER
ONE-ARMED SWORDSMAN
RETURN TO THE 36TH CHAMBER
ROAR OF THE LION
SAVAGE 5
SEVEN BLOWS OF THE DRAGON
SEVEN MAN ARMY
SEVEN SOLDIERS OF KUNG FU
SHAOLIN ABBOT
SHAOLIN CHALLENGES NINJA
SHAOLIN HANDLOCK
SHAOLIN INTRUDERS
SHAOLIN MANTIS
SHAOLIN MARTIAL ARTS
SHAOLIN PRINCE
SHAOLIN RESCUERS
SHAOLIN TEMPLE
SUPER NINJAS
TEN TIGERS OF KWANTUNG
THE SHAOLIN AVENGERS
THREE EVIL MASTERS
TRAIL OF THE BROKEN BLADE
TREASURE HUNTERS
TWO CHAMPIONS OF SHAOLIN
VENGEANCE

Know to have them becuase others have it (4).
LIZARD
WEB OF DEATH
KUNG FU HELLCATS
THUNDERBOLT FIST

Know to have them but only have seen them at one time or have seen clips (9).
14 AMAZONS - english dubbed clips were shown throughout that Celestial-produced Shaw Brothers documentary
The Champion
DEADLY BREAKING SWORD - It was among the titles anounced for the last Black Belt Theater
DISCIPLES OF THE 36TH CHAMBER - It was among the titles anounced for the last Black Belt Theater
OPIUM AND THE KUNG FU MASTER - It was among the titles anounced for the last Black Belt Theater
Spiritual Boxer - It was among the titles anounced for the last Black Belt Theater run with Battle for Shaolin and the others.
Sword of Swords - ran on Turkish TV with the English Dub used for the Turkish (during the Fights you can hear small snippets where they left the sound undubbed in Turkish so that English bits could be heard) released by MIHK
Have Sword Will Travel - ran on Turkish TV
The Pirate - ran on Turkish TV

But these are are questionable and would love if someone someone confirmed they had them (37).

ANONYMOUS HEROES
ASSASSIN
BASTARD, THE
BRAVE ARCHER 4
BUDDHA'S PALM
CASINO
CLAN OF AMAZONS
COME DRINK WITH ME
DEATH DUEL
DRAGON MISSILE
FIST OF VENGEANCE
FLYING DAGGER
FULL MOON SCIMITAR
GOLDEN SWALLOW
HEADS FOR SALE
HEROES SHED NO TEARS
HOLY FLAME OF THE MARTIAL WORLD
HOUSE OF TRAPS
INVINCIBLE ENFORCER
IRON BODYGUARD
KID FROM KWANTUNG
KILLER CLANS
KING EAGLE
LADY HERMIT
LADY IS THE BOSS
MING DYNASTY
MURDER PLOT
PERILS OF THE SENTIMENTAL SWORDSMAN
PROUD TWINS
RAW COURAGE
RENDEZVOUS WITH DEATH
RETURN OF THE ONE-ARMED SWORDSMAN
RETURN OF THE SENTIMENTAL SWORDSMAN
TIGRESS OF SHAOLIN
TRILOGY OF SWORDSMANSHIP
VENGEANCE IS A GOLDEN BLADE
YOUNG VAGABOND

Also these Shaws also supposed to have english dubs(30).
Big Fellow, The
Black Lizard, The
Black Magic
Black Magic Part 2
Bloody Escape, The
Coward Bastard
Deadly Angels
Duel For Gold
Fangs Of The Cobra
Gambling Syndicate, The
Godfather's Fury
Intimate Confessions of a Chinese Courtesan
Killer Snakes, The
Killers On Wheels
Kiss Of Death
Lady Exterminator
Lady Professional, The
Lost Souls
Mercenaries From Hong Kong
Mighty Peking Man, The
Monkey Goes West, The
My Rebellious Son
Mysterious Lady Killer, The
Police Force
Queen Hustler
Sexy Killer, The
Super Inframan
Valley Of The Fangs
Weird Man, The
What Price Honesty

[sevenhooks]

I have both LIZARD & WEB OF DEATH in english, courtesy of the Siren Visual DVD from OZ.

Also, clips of an english dubbed 14 AMAZONS were shown throughout that Celestial-produced Shaw Brothers documentary that can be found as an extra feature on some of those Siren discs.

[sevenhooks]

As requested, here's a scan of the (2 page) GIANT ROBOT magazine interview with Rik Thomas, a fellow who was responsible for dubbing countless old school kung fu flicks back in the day.
Enjoy...


http://www.boomspeed.com/paulnice/giantrobotdubarticlea.jpg
http://www.boomspeed.com/paulnice/giantrobotdubarticleb.jpg

[gfanikf]

thanks so much Sevenhooks.

[magicpoe]

jumper5836,

I have Five Tough Guys AKA Kung Fu Hellcats fullscreen English dubbed. Runtime is 1hour 29minutes and 23secs long.

[Linn1]

were for sure dubbed:

Thunderbolt Fist
The Champion
Spiritual Boxer- It was among the titles anounced for the last Black Belt Theater run with Battle for Shaolin and the others.

[killer meteor]

This Rick Thomas guy - which dubber is he? Any films/characters?

[spannick]

Sword of Swords
Have Sword Will Travel
The Pirate

100% too, because they ran on Turkish TV with the English Dub used for the Turkish (during the Fights you can hear small snippets where they left the sound undubbed in Turkish so that English bits could be heard)
and this was 10 Years ago, when the Movies from Shaw where also released by MIHK. so all this did then exist - and now it's suppossed to be gone?

[sevenhooks]

This Rick Thomas guy - which dubber is he? Any films/characters?


Not exactly sure. I'd have to hear his voice of course.
I'm sure any of us would probably be like "oh sh#t! THAT guy?!"

That article didn't go into much detail unfortunately, but it was still interesting.

I have a feeling you can hear his voice on the english dub versions of BRIDE WITH WHITE HAIR or KUNG FU CULT MASTER.
Both of those films feature a few of the instantly recognizable old school dubbers.
Good to "hear" they were still working up to that point at least.

[bobo]

i have THUNDERBOLT FIST in english dub. fullscreen watchable quality.

[bobo]

oh by the way --are not the IMAGE ENTERTAINMENT releases includeing english dubs. DEADLY BREAKING SWORD-- VENGEANCE IS A GOLDEN BLADE etc.

[jumper5836]

bobo not sure what your trying to explain

[sevenhooks]

Jumper,

A few more to add/subtract from your list...

These, like Spiritual Boxer, were part of that last infamous Black Belt Theater package...

DEADLY BREAKING SWORD (US title: Breaking Sword of Death)
OPIUM AND THE KUNG FU MASTER (US title: Lightning Fists of Shaolin)
DISCIPLES OF THE 36TH CHAMBER (US title: Disciples of the Master Killer)

I've also seen both BASTARD SWORDSMAN & HOUSE OF TRAPS under a list for the last BBT package.
However, I feel less inclined to "confirm" them since they never made the "final list" so to speak, with the alternate US re-titles, etc.

(btw, in case you're interested, the US title for SPIRITUAL BOXER was "Naked Fists of Terror")

Also, I've heard that MY YOUNG AUNTIE was part of the package as well.
I know it's common knowledge that there's a dub of this, but there's a bit of confusion as to what the re-title was, which might've unintentionally hidden another Shaw film in the package as a result.
MY YOUNG AUNTIE has gone under the US titles, KUNG FU CONCUBINE as well as FANGS OF THE TIGRESS.
As World Northal was the only company in the states to have held the rights to this film (which never even saw the light of day), which was the correct title?
I believe it was KUNG FU CONCUBINE, while FANGS OF THE TIGRESS might have actually been World Northal's US re-title for Hui Ying Hung's TIGRESS FROM SHAOLIN.
However, that's just a purely educated speculation on my part.

[killer meteor]

My Young Auntie English dub - UK VHS

I think Golden Swallow was released in the US as The Girl With The Thunderbolt Kick

[jumper5836]

Thanks for the info. I didn't know about that aka for Opium and the Kung Fu Master.

Also wan't My Young Autie also called Elders?

[sevenhooks]

"The Elders" was the tentative, working title that showed up in Southern Screen articles.
Kinda like how Masked Avengers was initially called "The Fork Syndicate"!

[Megaloman]

MIGHTY PEKING MAN was released over here in dubbed form as GOLIATHON. same dub the US DVD release has.

David

[gfanikf]

bump this shouldnt disappear into a ezboard purge heck i think it deserves a sticky.

Hmm out of interest what other languages besdies Canto and Mandarian did the Shaws dub for German I think I've heard but thats it

[deliriocaldo]

German dubs were not done by the shaws, but by the german distributors.

[gfanikf]

Hmm then I wonder what else besides Canto and Man and English where dubbed by the Shaws

Thanks for the sticky to whoever did it

[spannick]

was released in Greece with English Audio on VHS. Fullscreen, but should be uncut. (84:24)

[beardy82]

Hey Spannick??? Whats up buddy???

[Kwok Choi]

From the lists so far on this thread I can confirm the following English dubbed titles that I have seen or shown ( projected / programmed ) in theatres. However I'll list them by the titles they had upon original release and re-release in that part of the world.

Heads For Sale
Vengeance
The Heroic Ones
The Chinese Boxer
The New One-Armed Swordsman
Duel Of Fists
The Deadly Duo
The Boxer From Shantung
Man Of Iron
The 4 Riders
Blood Brothers
Heroes Two
Men From The Monastery
Shaolin Martial Arts
Disciples Of Shaolin
The New Shaolin Boxer
Shaolin Temple
Executioners From Shaolin
The 36th Chamber Of Shaolin
Life Gamble
Shaolin Mantis
Shaolin Handlock
Bat Island Adventure
The Five Venoms
Invincible Shaolin
Avengers Handicapped
Shaolin Challenges Ninja
The Deadly Breaking Sword
Shaolin Rescuers
The Kung Fu Instructor
The Daredevils
Shaoiln Abbot
5 Super Fighters
The Duel
The Invincible Boxer
The Kid With The Golden Arms
The Tigress Of Shaolin
The Magnificent Ruffians
Mad Monkey Kung Fu
The Invincible Enforcer
Fists Of The White Lotus
The Guerrillas
Iron Chain Fighter
The Killer Constable
Two Champions Of Shaolin
The Master
Coward Bastard
The Kid With A Tattoo
The Boxer From The Temple
10 Tigers From Kwangtung
Heroes Shed No Tears
The Flag Of Iron
Return To The 36th Chamber
Rendezvous With Death
Martial Club
Lion Vs Lion
Masked Avengers
Treasure Hunters
Shaolin House Of Traps
The lizard
Black Lizard (one of the best Shaw English dubs ever)
Brave Archer 3
Legendary Weapons Of China
5 Element Ninja
My Rebellious Son
Shaolin Temple 3
Hero (1997)

Actually only a few on the lists of this thread were released in original language with subs like
7 Man Army
The Naval Commandos
My Young Auntie
The Condemned
Chinatown Kid (International version for that matter)
Bare Footed Kid (distributed and maybe co-financed by Shaws?)

I only saw The Assassin and The 14 Amazons once so I can't remember if they were dubbed or subbed.
When I get some time I'll go through the entire list of what Celestial has released so far to see if I can pick out some more then also check Markgway's official Shaw listings to find the remaining titles.

[sevenhooks]

Black Lizard (one of the best Shaw English dubs ever)

Really? How so?
I imagine it might be due to the film being more plot heavy than usual?
I thought Life Gamble was very well done for this reason.
Made the film more interesting and involving.
I'd LOVE to to see the english version of Black Lizard (hell, I'd love to just HEAR it!)

[FarEastPirate]

What are some rare English dubs that some collecters have that are not in Circulation at this moment.

ie. Duel for Gold and Thunderbolt Fist

[Atomic Mystery Monster]

I've heard stories about people making audio cassette copies of their favorite TV shows in the pre-VCR days. Perhaps someone did something similar while watching one of the lost Shaw dubs on television?

[Kwok Choi]

These are the last titles I can definitely confirm as dubbed in English after going through Mark's list.Video collectors might be able to confirm the rest as my source is cinema based with some films having alternative titles for that region.
Temptress Of A Thousand Faces
The Girl With A Thunderbolt Kick
The Silver Fox
The Lady Professional
The Killer
The Angry Guest
The Delinquent
The Iron Bodyguard
Bamboo House Of Dolls
Friends
The Bloody Escape
Marco Polo
Boxer Rebellion
The Magic Blade
Deadly Angels
The Avenging Eagle
The Brave Archer
The Brave Archer 2
My Young Auntie (though this one and the following 2 below were originally released subbed in Sierra Leone,I have also seen dubbed versions)
The Naval Commandos
Chinatown Kid and finally
The Lady Is The Boss
Thats it.This is the best I can do.Sorry about the limitation.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah.......I did indeed leave it out. Oh Yes
The Proud Twins is another.

[FarEastPirate]

The Iron Bodyguard

Does anybody have this in English on VHS ?

[Markgway]

My Young Auntie (though this one and the following 2 below were originally released subbed in Sierra Leone,I have also seen dubbed versions)

Made in Hong Kong released this dubbed on VHS in the UK.

[sevenhooks]

The Lady Is The Boss

Wow. Where have you seen/heard the dub for this?
Whould love to have that one.

[Kwok Choi]

The Proud Twins
The Flag Of Iron

[whamsabi]

You can also include:
Naval Commandos
7 Man Army

[whamsabi]

I know I saw 14 Amazons dubbed from a special about the women of Shaw. I looked like the familiar voices. I saw it on Showtime or Cinemax. It was not the movie ,but a special about the Shaw women.

[sevenhooks]

I know I saw 14 Amazons dubbed from a special about the women of Shaw. I looked like the familiar voices. I saw it on Showtime or Cinemax. It was not the movie ,but a special about the Shaw women.


Yeah, I saw a few english dubbed clips from 14 Amazons on that "Art of Action" documentary with Samuel L. Jackson.
It was definitely a part of the older, familiar group of voices as whamsai had previously mentioned.

[gfanikf]

I was wondering do people feel like we have seen all the dubs that we will ever see? That there will be no release with a dub popping out of nowhere (ie like saying a film on the dub list but never available dubbed) and If it hasnt appeared now in some form thats not on reels somewhere then it never will.

When was the last Shaw dub even discovered and started being traded?

Any ideas (more like random speculation) on what dubs may still be waiting to be found?

[bobo]

i think there are a few known dubs that will never surface---examples COME DRINK WITH ME--FLYING DAGGER--LADY HERMIT--KING EAGLE--KILLER CLANS--PIRATE--PROUD TWINS--RENDEZVOUS WITH DEATH--RETURN OF THE ONEARMED SWORDSMAN--and of course HOUSE OF TRAPS. i for one believe copies of these still exist--but are being held by fanatic collectors. as for the last dub to surface --beats me---seems if you search long enough you might find one. i want to get the english dub of LEGEND OF THE BAT from flashlegs--i haven,t seen this one yet. right now i,ve got an english dub version of STREET GANGS OF HONG KONG on the way. every chance i get i search old video stores--book stores--flea markets etc. still waiting for that big find.:rollin

[gfanikf]

I know that feeling Bobo. I always have a hope when I go into an old video store or flea market (and there is one coming up soon so I will keep my eyes out :) ) that I'm going to somehow come away with some treasure. I just cant believe that some dubs just dont exist anymore. I understand Shaws and now Celestial may not have them anymore based on what Linn has said BUT I cant believe those reels Kwok Choi mentioned are all dust now. I would hope not. I think its a matter of searching on a scale not possible for fans (sorta what major studios have done one example is how lots of missing footage from the Lost World turned up in Chezch. I have a feeling more will turn up I just know it this isnt one thing like the Spider Scene or London at Midnight where its just one film but many films. We may not get them all BUT i think we will get some.

I remeber a rumor going around that Toby Russel has a lot of Shaw prints and before Celestial came about was planning to release them at a point in the future I have to think some rare things are in his possesion sadly though he cant release or use them for fear Celestial may try to grab them. My main theory is that a lot of SB prints are still sitting in old UHF stations or in Africe or the Carribean. Just a hunch though

[sevenhooks]

When was the last Shaw dub even discovered and started being traded?

It's been a long while since any "newly discovered" dubs have surfaced, but the last ones I remember showing up were Legend of the Bat, 7 Man Army, Battle Wizard, Flying Guillotine 2 and Heaven and Hell (that one was a little earlier).

Just SOME of my english dubbed Holy Grails...

To Kill a Mastermind
Rendezvous With Death
House of Traps
Legend of the Fox
Sword Stained With Royal Blood
Ode To Gallantry
Tigress From Shaolin
Lady Is The Boss
Ambitious Kung Fu Girl
Gangmaster
Bastard Swordsman 1 & 2
Lover's Blades
Opium and the Kung Fu Master
Long Road To Gallantry
Fake Ghostcatchers
Fighting Fool
Proud Twins
Bloody Parrot
Sentimental Swordsman series
Soul of the Sword
Brave Archer and His Mate
Heroes Shed No Tears


as you can see, there's plenty more to hope and pray for.

[Frank Lakatos]

My main theory is that a lot of SB prints are still sitting in old UHF stations or in Africe or the Carribean.

From my knowledge, you'll find many rare dubs in the Miami area, which made it on WBFS channel 33 tv in the 80's. There was a place in downtown Miami that sold old dubb Shaws, some of the same prints used on tv, which were aquired through truck lot auctions.

There is the story that Channel 33 sold off their entire inventory of Shaws to truck lot sales, which sold their loads in auctions or by the Dixie Highway railroad tracks.

I have watched channel 33 for years and can confirm these dubbs were in the 33 inventory:

House of Traps
Sword Stained With Royal Blood
Lady Is The Boss
Bastard Swordsman 1 and 2
Opium and the Kung Fu Master
Fake Ghostcatchers tv title was Kung Fu Ghostcatchers
Fighting Fool
Proud Twins
Sentimental Swordsman 1 and 2
Soul of the Sword
Brave Archer and His Mate

I once corresponded with a person who had worked with Channel 33 in the 1980's, a kung fu movie fan, who revealed that 33 aquired their movies from other stations, most likely the West indies, St. Martin, and Wometco NY. 33 had too many of these Shaw movies in their vaults and not enough space to air them, so some of the movies were aired during midnight. From what i was told, MANY Shaw movies were dubbed, giving the appearance that all of the Shaw kung fu movies were dubbed and available. In 1990, the inventory was sold and dispersed all over the Miami area. I was told by this person the fact of the situation that nobody bought the movies because they didn't understand the significence of them and the tapes and reels were just thrown away when the garage sale was over.

For a fact, WBFS Channel 33 in Miami once had all of the rare Shaw English dubbs. But, they've been thrown away years ago.

Frank

[Dion Brother]

Could I really get excited to hear this dialogue in those intercontinental accents:

"But still, that House has alot of Traps."

"Right, then."

Anybody got the old issue of MAMA with the list of titles that were announced by Southgate, and the packages offered to Ocean Shores? That may fill in the blanks.

[sevenhooks]

I have watched channel 33 for years and can confirm these dubbs were in the 33 inventory:

House of Traps
Sword Stained With Royal Blood
Lady Is The Boss
Bastard Swordsman 1 and 2
Opium and the Kung Fu Master
Fake Ghostcatchers tv title was Kung Fu Ghostcatchers
Fighting Fool
Proud Twins
Sentimental Swordsman 1 and 2
Soul of the Sword
Brave Archer and His Mate



Curious, since aside from House of Traps, Opium & the KF Master and the 1st Bastard Swordsman film, NONE of those titles were ever picked up by World Northal (and even those 3 flicks never aired dubbed in the states - at least I've yet to see any proof supporting such a claim - video tape, ANY local TV listing, etc.).
Also, WW Entertainment/WorldNorthal had at that time, exclusive television distribution rights for english dubbed Shaw flicks in that territory.
For example, WHO exactly was the company that took the liberty to retitle Fake Ghostcatchers like that and air it on TV?

Also, do you remember if Brave Archer and His Mate had a retitle as well? Maybe "Kung Fu Warlords Part 4" or something like that?


From my knowledge, you'll find many rare dubs in the Miami area,


I've got thousands of dollars set aside for anyone who can come up with tapes of ANY of those (english dubbed) titles you mentioned.
No joke.

[Frank Lakatos]

Curious, since aside from House of Traps, Opium & the KF Master and the 1st Bastard Swordsman film, NONE of those titles were ever picked up by World Northal (and even those 3 flicks never aired dubbed in the states - at least I've yet to see any proof supporting such a claim - video tape, ANY local TV listing, etc.).
Also, WW Entertainment/WorldNorthal had at that time, exclusive television distribution rights for english dubbed Shaw flicks in that territory.
For example, WHO exactly was the company that took the liberty to retitle Fake Ghostcatchers like that and air it on TV?

I don't have a clear answer to that, except that probably most of these unlicensed Shaw dubs came from New York, presumably a channel called Wometco, which was once situated on the top of the Empire State Building. The other half of the movies came from St. Thomas in the Carribean. Wometco bought their movies from Europe, which bought their versions from all over Asia, which was probably responsible for the alternate versions and titles. From my knowledge, there was a big connection between Wometco and WBFS 33 in the 80's. Wometco sold most of their movies after an 80's flood, preseumably to channel 33 and back to European tv stations in order to avoid rights issues, since Wometco dealt with alternate versions of movies. Most of the movies were in poor condition with dust and deterioration of the celluloid, but were aired nonetheless, usually during the late night hours.

Also, do you remember if Brave Archer and His Mate had a retitle as well? Maybe "Kung Fu Warlords Part 4" or something like that?

Back then, I'd catch the movies midway through, not seeing the opening credits, but i do remember Kung Fu Warlords in the title. The rare dubs listed do exist, I can confirm as a fact from years of watching Shaws 33. World Northal wasn't the only one to pick up on the Shaws. Wometco source dtheir movies from Europe, in which their movies were sourced from all over Asia. Another thing I noticed is that the prints ran uncut when compared to the Celestials and other versions. In some cases, 33 had to interrupt the movie during the 2 hour mark and fade out to the next program, cutting out half the movie and ending sometimes. I remember that being a huge let down.

Most of Wometco's inventory lies in Miami-Dade County. They are somewhere, usually on the sides of the tracks, because the trucks dump their contents on the tracks.

Not many people know of the Miami connection, and I always get into disputes with other local fans who just find what I say hard to believe, even though these local fans were in other states back in the 33 days. I was born in Miami and grew up with that station, and can confirm what I saw.

Frank

[sevenhooks]

Wometco bought their movies from Europe, which bought their versions from all over Asia, which was probably responsible for the alternate versions and titles.


If we're talking about the same Wometco, then definitely not true.
Living in NY I had a subscription to Wometco Home Theater/WHT (an early competitor to HBO) starting in 1980 and lasting until they stopped showing movies and became an early MTV clone.
I still have a few of the uncut, english dubbed Shaws I taped off the channel (Return of the Master Killer, Masked Avengers, Master of Disaster, Fists of the White Lotus, etc.) complete with the WHT logo popping up during the movie (and the WW Ent. logo beforehand).
I also know from my talks with Ivory Harris (who helped run World Northal) that WHT got ALL of their Shaws direct from them.
Also, I would have most DEFINITELY remembered WHT broadcasting ANY of those other dubbed Shaws you listed.
Sure we're talking about the same station?



World Northal wasn't the only one to pick up on the Shaws. Wometco source dtheir movies from Europe, in which their movies were sourced from all over Asia.


Again, I got the subscription to WHT way back then SPECIFICALLY for the Shaw films (and for some of the late nite soft core porn ;) ).
The ONLY Shaw stuff ever shown on WHT was from World Northal. Period. You must be talking about another WHT.
Otherwise, please name a distributor.


Back then, I'd catch the movies midway through, not seeing the opening credits, but i do remember Kung Fu Warlords in the title.

Doesn't make sense, since "Kung Fu Warlords" was a World Northal-specific retitle for the Brave Archer series, but WN only procured parts 1, 2 and 3 of the series.
Did some other European company just happen to retitle the film under the "Kung Fu Warlords" banner too? If so, what was the company?


The rare dubs listed do exist, I can confirm as a fact from years of watching Shaws 33.

I have no doubt that english dubs were made.
I do have doubts that those films you listed were ever shown dubbed in english on US tv.
Sorry. I just need to see SOME kind of proof.
That's just WAY too many incredible classics you listed showing in a HUGE market.
The fact that not ONE of those movies have ever shown up dubbed on tape somewhere seems a bit hard to fathom.
How hard can it be to find an old local television listing or two?
I bet a local Miami library has the tv listings on microfilm via the local newspapers from back then.
Please prove me wrong. :D



Most of Wometco's inventory lies in Miami-Dade County. They are somewhere, usually on the sides of the tracks, because the trucks dump their contents on the tracks.

Not many people know of the Miami connection, and I always get into disputes with other local fans who just find what I say hard to believe, even though these local fans were in other states back in the 33 days. I was born in Miami and grew up with that station, and can confirm what I saw.



Again. I'm putting my money up if you can come up with even ONE of these titles.

[Frank Lakatos]

You are right about what you're writing, poiting out the facts as they are. To tell you the truth, I'm not so sure if what I've learned throught the years is true or not, and probably most is not, except for what I saw. The Wometco details are superficial. The inventory came from Wometco Canada i believe, not NY, because a flood couldn't reach the Empire State Building. I remember a flood being in the story, there was some sort of flood that lead to the selling of the inventory in 1985, which 33 suppsedly bought a great deal of at that time. I'm not sure if wometco NY showed those rare dubs at all. Probably that canadian division of that station. I never heard heard anybody in NY talk about rare Shaws either, unless Wometco probably had an inventory they never used, but I'm just guessing. It's all rumours, that's all I can say and I have no concrete proof to back them up unfortunately.

I'd like to bring about details on opium and the Kung Fu Master under an aka 33 English dubb. I noticed when comparing the HK print to what I saw on 33 that Ti Lung and tang Chia's training scenes were much longer and bleaker. There were many instances, long scene of Ti Lung going mad and Tang Chia just smacking him around with the poles. That very long dramatic scene, 5-8 minutes were tang finally realizes how desperate and severe of a condition Ti is in, with Ti mad and begging for a cure and Tang saddened. Ti's dilemma lasts longer. Initially, he fails all forms of healing, then returns after thinking about Chen Kuan Tai and his Opium house. The other differences when Chen Kuan Tai is beaten by Ti, there are many desperate, horrifying shots of Chen and his face expression, as Chen begins to weaken, his technique immobilized, his expression weak and vulnerable, his defeat lasts at least 2 minutes longer than the HK version, and is more dramatic. These dramatic scenes are supposed to reverse the tables, where now Chen is the weaker vulnerable man. The scenes edited out concern Ti's student and the opium house subplot. The HK version in comparison to this version was a huge let down. Most of the effective scenes were cut out and the HK versions seems too short and rushed, compared to the beauty of the English dubbed version.

Frank

[bobo]

i have a suggestion--how about any fans on this site who happen to live in the miami area do a really detailed search of the area. check all the small private video rental stores--check flea markets--maybe even some yard sales. enquire at some of the local tv stations etc. you never know--even if you come up with one or two tittles it would be worth it.

[killer meteor]

I don't really understand why Siren didn't do that, unless they didn't know or didn't think it was worth it. Also, just to be clear, Celestial still does own all rights to the English dub tracks. Companies wishing to put out Shaw Brothers titles must buy the rights to the original dubs as well (if they want them).

The Siren releases are weird. The Master had no dub despite one being advertised and that list shows that Celestial has one. Many of Siren's anamorphic releases do not have a dub and those that do - All Men Are Brothers and The Web Of Death - are incomplete. I wonder if Siren decided it wasn't worth the extra money to get the dubs - if they did, they shot themselves in the foot because the dubs were the main appeal of the DVDs - the subs, full of errors and badly positioned in an ugly ckunky yellow font were poor. Their site is lacking in info though the staff is helpful when e-mailed. I noticed 2 things recently

1) The site is undergoing a re-vamp

2) Legendary Weapons Of China and Shaolin Prince are listed as being Cantonese on the Siren DVDs - as opposed to the more common practice of just sticking the Mandarin track on, regardless of whether it is correct or not. Does anyone know if the Cantonese tracks are indeed on these DVDs

[bobo]

i agree with killer meteor--if SIREN--IMAGE--and DRAGON DYNASTY don,t include the english dub versions of their SHAW releases they are makeing a big mistake. the whole point of releaseing these movies to the north american(english speaking folk) audience is to provide the dub version. if not people could just buy the asian celestial version. lets face it--there are some people that want the mandarin version but i believe the majority want the dubs. i bet dubbed kungfu movies outsell non dubbed fu movies by about a thousand to one in north america.:rollin

[sevenhooks]

As someone who has had 1st hand experience with the US buying market for these films for over 15 years I can tell you that you are absolutely correct.
The hardcore base wants the (original) english dubs. Period.
I really hope they (meaning Dragon Dynasty, Image, etc.) understand this.

[gfanikf]

Forgot to post this awhile ago a post Flashlegs Pete Jr. post at the FLK forum. I can't beleive I forgot to mention this. I cant confirm the stuff about the guy in NY but if Pete Jr says he has DFG than I defiantly believe him on that

Well I know a friend in New York who had House Of Traps and Disciples Of The 36th Chamber in dubbed but he chucked it in the bin 7 years ago because the quality was so bad. He sent me a copy of Duel For Gold in English dubbed 3 years ago of which I still have. There must be a lot of English dubbed about in West Africa as I was told most of them were released there.

[killer meteor]

i agree with killer meteor--if SIREN--IMAGE--and DRAGON DYNASTY don,t include the english dub versions of their SHAW releases they are makeing a big mistake. the whole point of releaseing these movies to the north american(english speaking folk) audience is to provide the dub version. if not people could just buy the asian celestial version. lets face it--there are some people that want the mandarin version but i believe the majority want the dubs. i bet dubbed kungfu movies outsell non dubbed fu movies by about a thousand to one in north america.

My personal preference for any kung fu film is to have a choice of original language - in original format too, no remixes - with the option of watching the film with it's original English dub. Many of the Mandarin dubs for these 70's films sound lacklustre and dull to me - some of my Chinese friends feel the same way so it's not just me - so the English dubs are my preferred choice for repeated viewing. To have the choice is best

[sevenhooks]

Well I know a friend in New York who had House Of Traps and Disciples Of The 36th Chamber in dubbed but he chucked it in the bin 7 years ago because the quality was so bad. He sent me a copy of Duel For Gold in English dubbed 3 years ago of which I still have. There must be a lot of English dubbed about in West Africa as I was told most of them were released there.


I certainly don't question the credentials of Flashlegs Pete Jr.
Although the story of his friend claiming to have once had both House of Traps and Disciples of the 36th Chamber dubbed in english leaves me just a little skeptical.
For one thing, if the copies this guy had were so horrible, that suggests that it was a dub/copy several generations down.
In other words, logic suggests there had to have been MORE copies of the same tape(s) somewhere.
NONE of them never showed up ANYWHERE?
Also, if this guy was in NY, it seems even more unlikely that he'd be able to keep these tapes out of the hands of other collectors.
Or at the very least, someone in the NY collecting circle (which was pretty tight) would have at least caught wind of the tapes.
I agree with Pete Jr. about West Africa being the potential motherlode for english dubbed Shaws though.

[Linn1]

where did he get Duel for Gold dubbed? And he does have it. It could be that the guy told him that he had those others dubbed and threw them away to just gain bragging rights or it could be that the guy really had it. I heard for YEARS of someone with a Eng dubbed Disciples in the US. I found one guy that supposedly had it, but he wouldn't trade.

[gfanikf]

I heard for YEARS of someone with a Eng dubbed Disciples in the US. I found one guy that supposedly had it, but he wouldn't trade.

Dont worry we can have ninjas and triads take care of that :) . Its a shame though. Its not like he can someday sell it or something. Whats the point any more? I'm sure he could get tons of stuff for it. Hording is so pointless to me these days.

[Kwok Choi]

The efforts made in this thread p081.ezboard.com/fkungfuf...=1&stop=20 (http://p081.ezboard.com/fkungfufandomfrm24.showMessageRange?topicID=4544.t opic&start=1&stop=20) deserves to be here so it won't be lost.Well done guys:hat

[gfanikf]

Thanks! Are you going to merge it into this thread?

[venom10463]

Just a thought, I think it will be a good idea if we go public with this info. We can start by posting wanted sign in the newspapers, magazine, etc.

[gfanikf]

Falkors site lists Anonymous Heroes as having a dub too. I'm going to check the rest of the site out later with arabic subs too. I never thought that film had a dub circulating :)

[spannick]

the Dub for ANONYMOUS HEROES is in unbearable Quality in that Algerian Arab Copy, sadly.

[bobo]

i recently finished watching SIRENS english dub of 12 GOLD MEDALLIONS and must admit they did a pretty good job. my question is--who did the dubbing and when. was this just recent and done just for siren. also if they did such a good job on this one why hasn,t whoever did it done anymore. afterall there are lots of good shaws out there that have never been dubbed--this sounds like a good project to me. one other thing--as i mentioned once before DUEL FOR GOLD was listed with english dub in widescreen on rarekungfumovies with arabic subs. seems to me that one would assume that somebody that visits sites such as this would have known about it and purchased a copy. what i,m trying to say is why hasn,t another copy surfaced anywhere and become available. lets face it if a certain someone could get a copy of this i,m sure it would start to make the rounds.

[killer meteor]

The Siren re-dub is awful in my opinion. From memory, it was from that group who re-dubbed the Fortune Star movies

[sevenhooks]

i recently finished watching SIRENS english dub of 12 GOLD MEDALLIONS and must admit they did a pretty good job. my question is--who did the dubbing and when. was this just recent and done just for siren. also if they did such a good job on this one why hasn,t whoever did it done anymore. afterall there are lots of good shaws out there that have never been dubbed--this sounds like a good project to me. one other thing--as i mentioned once before DUEL FOR GOLD was listed with english dub in widescreen on rarekungfumovies with arabic subs. seems to me that one would assume that somebody that visits sites such as this would have known about it and purchased a copy. what i,m trying to say is why hasn,t another copy surfaced anywhere and become available. lets face it if a certain someone could get a copy of this i,m sure it would start to make the rounds.


I second what killer meteor says about the Siren re-dubs.
They're horrible.
And I'm definitely NOT in favor of ANY new re-dubbing of ANY Shaws Brothers films.
Whether they've had an english dub before or not.
And if not, then I'd rather just watch/listen to it in chinese instead.
The original english dubs were special.
They were quality and they were class.
Any new dubs would just sound totally wrong.

(besides, original english dubs WERE made for nearly ALL Shaw films that had even a modicum of action in it, so I'd rather a little EFFORT be made to search out the original dubs that we KNOW exist, as oppossed to taking the easy way out and just tack on a corny NEW dub)

Accchhh!!
Just stop it.
Please!
Now!!

:x :x :x

[bobo]

i prefer the original classic dubs best myself. i only suggested that some new dubs for NEVER dubbed movies might be a good idea. afterall i,ve allways stated that no matter what they did everyone should have the choice of new dub--original dub--or original chinese. i,m pro choice. one things for sure and thats- that there are a lot of classic dubs that still need to be found.

[killer meteor]

Here are the 166 titles which were mentioned as available "with english optical track" in an early listing of the 760 Shaw films Celestial acquired:

Is that list accuate? Among it is Have Sword, Will Travel, which did not have a dub on the Image DVD. Vengeance IS A Golden Blade is due soon from Image. Wonder if that will have the dub

[sevenhooks]

There has been a few titles that we KNOW had english dubs made for them, yet when it came time for a DVD release in an english language market, sorry... no english dub.

Ie: The Master / 3 Evil Masters on Siren in Austrailia.
Or Spiritual Boxer on Momentum in England.

Hell, even Image was all set to release Deadly Breaking Sword in chinese only before folks here on this very board pointed out the existance/availability of an actual english dub.

And yeah, I believe there are a couple of Image titles that definitely had an english dub made for them initially.

I think the bottom line is the willingness of these companies to KNOW and CARE about this kind of stuff.

[killer meteor]

Or Spiritual Boxer on Momentum in England.

Momentum didn't get dubs for any of the films. However Siren also released Spiritual Boxer and I don't think that has a dub

[bobo]

VENGEANCE IS A GOLDEN BLADE--IMAGE--no english dub. SHADOW WHIP--IMAGE--no english dub ---apparently they could not find copies of the dubs--that is if there even are any. can anyone actually confirm beyond a doubt that dubs for these two actually exist. thier upcoming release of HEAVEN AND HELL is supposed to include a dub versionas well as BELLS OF DEATH.

[sevenhooks]

Momentum didn't get dubs for any of the films. However Siren also released Spiritual Boxer and I don't think that has a dub





Point is, I'm pretty sure that Momentum didn't make much of an effort (if any effort at ALL) to procure any dubs in the first place.
I don't most of these companies do.


EDIT:
Re: Siren and Spiritual Boxer: I know they released this title as well without a dub - just as they did with The Master.
But an english dub DOES definitely exist for Spiritual Boxer.
World Northal even had it retitled "Naked Fists of Terror" for a broadcast on US television that never happened.
The existence of a dub was also confirmed at the Library of Congress on this board not too long ago.
All it would take on the part of these companies is a little bit f knowledge and effort.
As it stands now, I think companies like Siren or Momentum just took whatever Celestial gave them and that was that.

[killer meteor]

What happened to Siren? They seem to have gone bust

[sevenhooks]

Seems that way, yeah.

[bobo]

if SPIRITUAL BOXER does in fact have an english dub i will add it to my list of lost shaw dubs and continue the never ending hunt to try and find a copy. you know before i got a computer i never knew that there were dub versions of --THE LIZARD--MAGIC BLADE--WEB OF DEATH--LEGEND OF THE BAT--all of which i now own--not to mention my uncut version of DELIGHTFUL FOREST.

[killer meteor]

Siren's Web Of Death dub is missing one or two lines

[Chris Poggiali]

QUEEN HUSTLER has an English dub, since it was released theatrically in the U.S. by World Northal.

[Atomic Mystery Monster]

I suspect that Celestial has something in their licensing contracts stating that the rights to remastered dub tracks eventually revert to them. As a result, they try to get licensors to pay extra for the dub track rights, and then try to force them to do the remastering so that they can get a free remastered dub track when license runs out. After all, why spend money remastering something that doesn't appeal to your home market when you can get someone else to do so and pay you for it?

[ironfistedmonk2003]

Spiritual Boxer definitely has a dub, it played over here in the UK on TV last night and it was the clearest sounding dub I've ever heard.

Can anyone confirm the Image titles released with dubs so far? All I know of are Black Magic and Legendary Weapons

[whamsabi]

If you want to see the english dub of Spiritual Boxer go
to Youtube.8)

[venomchamber]

Here's a bit of (dated) information I dug out from my archives that I found interesting, supplied by MOVIE NEWS -published at the Shaw House (*Runme Shaw's office) in Singapore. Maybe Celestial (located in neighboring Malaysia) should raid these offices?
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/1282/shaw16mmce7.jpg

[bobo]

BELLS OF DEATH--now officially on image site for release on july/3. by that picture there one might assume that all shaw kungfu movies had a dub version at some point.

[venomchamber]

Yep.
I can confirm that just from listening to a repeated viewing of the SVE 12 GOLD MEDALLIONS disc, it was dubbed in the mid-80s (why I couldn't say) by the same voice actors who dubbed the Golden Harvest stuff like JACKIE CHAN'S POLICEFORCE aka POLICE STORY.
I've never seen (or heard) any other English version of this film before.
Maybe the original "but still" audio track was lost in that alleged fire they supposedly had and they needed to redo it for an overseas market?
Maybe there are alternate dubs for alternate cuts? There may be a GOLD MEDALLIONS OF DEATH (HA!) floating around out there with the classic 70s voices?
It may not neccessarily be a redub, but a (very) late first time dub?
On a positive note, more is better...any English is better than no English! Since I'm not fluent in Mandarin, I'm grateful.
Besides, this is the kind of stuff that makes collecting Shaws interesting and so much fun!

[rockstargrrl]

howdy

looking for the name of the man who does the english dub of gordon liu in 'master killer'... also aware he does dubs in a ton of other kung-fu movies...

if someone can give me his name i'd greatly appreciate it.

k.

[venomchamber]

But Still...that's the BEST voice! What's more...I heard David Chiang with it in Shaolin Handlock, and Kuo Chui has it in Kid With The Golden Arm and Killer Army, Gordon Liu had it in Master Killer and Challenge Of The Ninja, Ti Lung has it in Kung-Fu Instructor and in Revenge Of The Zombies, Fu Sheng has it in The Chinatown Kid, and so on!
Last thing I heard him in was in Godzilla Vs King Ghidorah from 1990.

[killer meteor]

My fave dubber is the one who voices Jackie in Snake & Crane Arts Of Shaolin and Chen Sing in New Fist Of Fury

[whamsabi]

other people with that voice:
Chen Kuan Tai in Executioners From Shaolin, Kung Fu Hellcats, Flying Guillotine, Iron Monkey and Hero From Shanghai.

Wang Yue in Dirty Ho,Dirty Kung Fu, Spiritual Boxer and Kid With Tattoo

Ti Lung also had it in 7 Man Army, 10 Tigers of Kwangtung, Flying Guillotine 2 and Delightful Forest

David Chiang has had this voice a lot. He has also had it
5 Shaolin Masters, Shaolin Mantis, Naval Commandos, Four Riders, Flaming Swords and Kings of Fists and Dollars

Fu Sheng had this voice in Heroes 2, Grandmaster of Death, Boxer Rebellion,Marco Polo, Shaolin Avengers and Treasure Hunters.

People with that voice:

Jimmy Wang has had that voice several times in Tiger and Crane Fists and 4 Real Friends

other people with that voice:
Yueh Hua
Li Yi Min
Wang Tao
Wang Lung Wei
Tan Tao Liang
Meng Fei
Chi Kuan Chun
Lu Feng
Lo Mang
Sun Chien
Carter Wong
Jack Long
Jackie Chan
Meng Yuen Man
Wu Yuan Chun
Ching Siu Tung
John Liu
Billy Chong
Ku Feng
Chen Sing
Chan Wei Man
Phillip Ko
Lo Lieh
Cliff Lok
Yasuaki Kurata
Chang Yi

[venomchamber]

Lo Lieh had it in The Magic Blade, Danny Li Hsieu-Hsien had it in Bruce Lee: His Last Days...His Last Nights, an Imperial Star Destroyer had it in Gamera- The Super Monster (which I taped from Drive-In Movie on channel 5 in NY) and it was even used throughout The Chinese Gods cartoon movie!
[*as I said "and so on!"] ;)

Clearly you know who I am talking about!

Question is: where is he now and what has he done lately?

Someone once told me he was dubbing anime now, but has not suggested any titles.

[killer meteor]

I still hear the guy who voiced Wei Pei in The Five Venoms on the odd anime. Christ, he has an annoying voice!

[oldeschool17]

if you contact the guy who did wei pai in the venoms, surely he might have some info on where the other dubbers are.

[Chris Poggiali]

MY YOUNG AUNTIE and BASTARD SWORDSMAN both played 42nd Street in the mid '80s under these titles, I believe 1986. MY YOUNG AUNTIE was definitely '86 -- played the Rialto for several weeks with KARATE WARRIORS.

What's the date for the supposed final "Black Belt Theatre" package? WNEW stopped showing the World Northal stuff around October of '87.

Did a number of World Northal releases never make it to TV packages? I don't remember seeing NAVAL COMMANDOS, QUEEN HUSTLER, ENTER THE FAT DRAGON, KUNG FU WARLORDS PART II, BLAST OF THE IRON PALM, MASTER OF DISASTER or a few others on any BBT lists.

[dewolfeaddict]

MY YOUNG AUNTIE and BASTARD SWORDSMAN both played 42nd Street in the mid '80s under these titles, I believe 1986. MY YOUNG AUNTIE was definitely '86 -- played the Rialto for several weeks with KARATE WARRIORS.

What's the date for the supposed final "Black Belt Theatre" package? WNEW stopped showing the World Northal stuff around October of '87.

Did a number of World Northal releases never make it to TV packages? I don't remember seeing NAVAL COMMANDOS, QUEEN HUSTLER, ENTER THE FAT DRAGON, KUNG FU WARLORDS PART II, BLAST OF THE IRON PALM, MASTER OF DISASTER or a few others on any BBT lists.


I remember when MY YOUNG AUNTIE and BASTARD SWORDSMAN played on The Duece.
It was towards the end. The did NOT play in english however.
By that time, exhibitors on 42nd street were renting prints directly fro Music Palace and other chinatown theaters after their initial run there and would play these films subtitled.
8 DIAGRAM POLE FIGHTER was another one that played in chinese w/subs on 42nd street back then.

Out of the titles you listed, MASTER OF DISASTER (Treasure Hunters) was on the last BB package list and DID play uncut and uninterrupted on WHT along with Fists of the White Lotus, Masked Avengers and a few others.

[Big Chan]

MY YOUNG AUNTIE and BASTARD SWORDSMAN both played 42nd Street in the mid '80s under these titles, I believe 1986. MY YOUNG AUNTIE was definitely '86 -- played the Rialto for several weeks with KARATE WARRIORS.

What's the date for the supposed final "Black Belt Theatre" package? WNEW stopped showing the World Northal stuff around October of '87.

Did a number of World Northal releases never make it to TV packages? I don't remember seeing NAVAL COMMANDOS, QUEEN HUSTLER, ENTER THE FAT DRAGON, KUNG FU WARLORDS PART II, BLAST OF THE IRON PALM, MASTER OF DISASTER or a few others on any BBT lists.

Master of Disaster(Treasure Hunters) mos def played on TV as part of the last BB package. The homie Big June sent me a VHS copy years ago that he taped of TV in Philly (Philly 57?). Opium And The Kung-Fu Master was on the list as part of this last package as well. KTLA in Los Angeles was the only station I know of that played more of the titles from the last package than any other station. KTLA aired the English dubbed "Kid With A Tattoo(Claw Of The Eagle)" "Battle For Shaolin(Shaolin Intruders)" and Boxer From The Temple. I even called KTLA after the BB packages ended and spoke to one of the programmers there. I was trying to get their 3/4" tapes from the last BB package! He told me they had already sent the tapes back to World Northal in New York.

[gravedigger666]

In past I thought about equal,dubs or subtitles did not matter that much.However after seeing stuff like super ninjas,shaolin temple,5 deadly venoms subbed I will say dialogue is lot better on those...kid with the golden arm on the other hand is really nicely dubbed,lo meng character somehow appears to be even cooler on dub version.

[bobo]

maybe its about time to get this thread going again.

[tdb]

Saw Chang Cheh's Bloody Fist (1974) (Chen Kuan-Tai, Fu Sheng) at a movie theater. The title on the print was Bloody Fist, but I see that it's Heroes Two which I own; I knew that it seemed familiar while I watched it.

Anyway, the print was English dubbed and once again the audience tittered and chortled inappropriately through the whole film. For the most part the dub was alright, Chen Kuan-Tai's dub was completely...what the hell were they thinking. It didn't ruin the movie, but it sure as hell didn't help.

[Markgway]

See Baron K's 'Taste This' thread for why dubs suck.

[VenomsFan]

maybe its about time to get this thread going again.

This is a good discussion. A couple things.

1. The HK films were filmed without sound. So dubbing was done afterwards in post. Some have speculated that Celestial re dubbed most of the films for the DVD release in chinese (mandarin/cantonese). But we DO know, for nostalgic reasons or otherwise, the films we have come to remember "sounded a certain way". You know the characters, famous lines etc. In my opinion, the ENG dub workers are more of a credit than the Asian dubb experts.

But saying it's in it's original is moot, there were shot without sound, it is not the original actors voices anyways.

2. Can someone re-post the Rik Thomas interview?

3. We learned from Chinatown Kid's Release that not only are their different dubbs, but also different edits to compliment those dubs.

4. This has been pointed out, but the reason we may not see all films dubbed, is that it may be alot of work. I spent 2 months dubbing Masked Avengers from one a Wometco master I dug up back in my Bruce Lee footage craze days (Apparently they had hours of on the set footage from Bruce Lee's Game of Death that they aired, but that's another old topic)

Back to Masked Avengers, the frame speed and syncing algorithims were different from the sourced masters. This is alot of work as someone pointed out, and it may be easier and more cost effective, to just release the better picture, with and already complete and working audio track. I completed it after 2 months and it was worth it.

5. The more that is researched, the more we will find out the releases are more akin to the Chinatown Kid release. Ahh, the mystique of Kung Fu Films.

My $.02.

Thanks,
VenomsFan
Official Five Deadly Venoms Fansite (http://fivedeadlyvenoms.cjb.net)

[Markgway]

Worth pointing out that many of the Mandarin dubs employed the actors themselves to do the dubbing. The idea that actors never dubbed thesmelves isn't true. Some characters actors (Ku Feng, Yang Chih-Ching, Ching Miao...) often did their own looping.

[douggorius]

2. Can someone re-post the Rik Thomas interview?
I would LOVE to see this.

[bobo]

i think i should mention that a lot of the missing dubs from the old list have shown up in recent years. movies such as VALLEY OF THE FANGS--GOLDEN SWALLOW--ASSASSIN--DEADLY BREAKING SWORD--HOUSE OF TRAPS--IRON BODYGUARD etc are now available with the dub versions---but still there are at least 60 or 70 from the list that are unaccounted for-- at least for now. with luck we'll soon have HOLY FLAME OF THE MARTIAL WORLD and BRAVE ARCHER AND HIS MATE. movies such as CASINO--FIST OF VENGEANCE--14 AMAZONS--PIRATE--QUEEN HUSTLER and THE SEXY KILLER are listed as being in the LOC with the dubs. obviously there are still a lot of classics still out there waiting to be found-->examples SWORD OF SWORDS--FLYING DAGGER--HEADS FOR SALE--LADY HERMIT--KING EAGLE--DRAGON MISSLE--INVINCIBLE ENFORCER--RENDEZVOUS WITH DEATH--WHAT PRICE HONESTY--TO KILL A MASTERMIND--SWORD STAINED WITH ROYAL BLOOD--SOUL OF THE SWORD and HUMAN SKIN LANTERNS to name just a few. i for one believe that most of these will eventually show up. can anyone confirm that SWORD OF SWORDS and PURSUIT OF VENGEANCE english dubs were on the KUNGFU HD channel ? hopefully media blasters next 10 shaws will include some rare english dubs.:p;):p

[spannick]

RENDEZVOUS WITH DEATH was released with the dub somewhere, got it on VHS. it has the same cuts as the DVD, so it means the ONLY Version having the cut Footage was the German Print...???

[bobo]

spannick--do you have an english dub version of RENDEZVOUS WITH DEATH ?

[VenomsFan]

Thanks Mark, I wasn't aware. Is there more info on the dubbing voice actors from back then?

As for German prints, they have a history of not only having English Dubbing, but also the longer, uncut versions. Flag of IronRuffians comes to mind.

Bobo, do you think it's possible that some never had an English dubb with its release?

[bobo]

there were obviously a lot of shaws that were not dubbed into english but i believe that there were a lot more in english that we are aware of. i mean dubbed shaws were popular in all english speaking parts of the world not just america--also english dubbed shaws played in lots of countries with foreign sub tittles. problem is that people in these countries are not aware of their popularity or value.

[Markgway]

There's precious little info on old school Mandarin dubbers. At Shaws they had a crew of dubbers (for English, Cantonese and Mandarin depending on the film) who would work on movie after movie uncredited. Sometimes character actors (like the ones I mentioned) would get extra cash by dubbing for other performers on different movies as well as doing their own. Usually the main stars were dubbed, at least in the martial arts movies, less so the dramas and musicals. Occasionally the leads did their own voices. Like I'm sure Gordon Liu did his own Cantonese for Eight-Diagram Pole Fighter, but I'd have to check. No one ever dubbed their English performances UNLESS the film was originally shot sync in English (ie. Legend of the 7 Golden Vampires) and ADR had to be done.

[VenomsFan]

just a note, the venoms film DareDevils, the chinese audio has no sound effects for the fighters. Like their screams, grunts and yells. it's very inconsistent. the dubbed versions (english) does througout.

not sure how other shaw films play out, but thought i'd share that

how could this be?

[VenomsFan]

so did anyone here find interviews/articles with the original dubbers of the Shaw films?