Heaven and Hell Gate

[Tosh]

I believe this was the last Venoms movie I haven't seen, all I can say is... WTF?:lol I really liked it, but was it suppose to be more like a theatrical play? I thought this was more of a Fu Sheng movie, and was surprised it was more about Lee I-Min (did he have any other leading parts at SB? I can only remember him in Shaolin Temple).
Lee-I-Min plus the Venoms could have equaled some crazy acrobatic kung fu ala the Daredevils, sadly it was supressed a bit, shame to because of the setting, but none the less, this movie is just one of the reasons I love Shaws so much, I'd love to have that NFL tank top Lo Meng was wearing:lol .

[peringaten]

Lee I Min was in 7 Man Army if I remember correctly.

I like Heaven & Hell - a funny, odd film... I don't even know what to say about it... Those hell sequences crack me up.

[BKarza]

I too am drawn to this. It's very different. CC really stepped out there on this one. While I don't like the whole thing, some of it is very interesting.

Heaven was cool with all of the Taiwan boys getting down together with a liberal use of Peking opera rhythm. DC came out ooking good as well.

FS and Jenny and Chiang Tao have a kind of West side story thing happening. Dancing fu with an appearance by Lau Ka Wing. No sfx in the fights was an interesting touch. The sets used during that sequence where also interesting choices.

Hell was where things come apart a bit. It certainly does show the bloody vastness of the Shaw studio. It would have been interesting to see what the Venoms would have looked like had Yi Min stayed.

[venomchamber]

This interesting film oddity has a complicated background!
This film could be considered the missing link in Chang's film career as it closed one era and ushered in another. This would be the last time Chang would work with Liu Chia-Yung, Chiang Tao, Tang Yen Tsan and Li Yi-Min.
It started production as THE HELL over at Chang's Film Company in Taiwan between filming 7 Man Army, The Fantastic Magic Baby and Shaolin Temple- Chang's return film for Shaws. This was during Chang's Peking Opera phase which explains why it looked more like a play than a movie.
Originally, Li Yi-Min meets up with Shih Szu as "Red Dress" and they rescue Fu Sheng & Jenny from hell to become reincarnated. No Wang Lung-Wei, and the venoms mob were only stuntmen.
The film was shelved for several years and upon Chang's return to Shaws in '77 was completed there during the same time period as The Chinatown Kid and The Call-Girls*.
(*Chang Cheh, Li Yi-Min and Lin Chen-Chi are all interviewed on the set of Heaven And Hell at the start of this film, which also used much of the same music soundtrack!)
For whatever reason, Shih Szu was out and Red Dress was recast by Shaw's newest star at the time, Lin Chen-Chi- fresh from The Snake Prince.
This is why Liu Chia-Yung can be seen throughout as a knife-weilding thug, and Chiang Tao suddenly needs a haircut when he meets with Wang Lung-Wei!
You'll also notice the only time there are sound effects during the "Earth" scequence are during the scenes filmed at Shaws with Wang Lung-Wei. (Of course the finale with the Venoms mob was entirely reshot at Shaws as well!)
Its release was delayed further (for reasons unknown to me) until 1980 by which time the film looked terribly dated to filmgoers.
Its an uneven hodgepodge of a film, but very enjoyable nevertheless.

[vengeanceofhumanlanterns]

Some damn good venom vs venom fights in this film. Especially the Kuo Chui vs Lu Feng recollected fight scene.

[morgoth]

I finally got around to seeing this. It wasn't very good, but I liked the fights. Fu Sheng's big fight scene was fun and I spotted Lau Kar Wing as one of the guy's with a knife. That was a very weird fight. And I liked how there was no undercranking at all in the movie. That sword fight between Kuo Chui and Lu feng is definitely the highlight. The only thing I was disappointed in was that Lung Wei and Fu Sheng should have gone at it longer.

[killer meteor]

I want to see this. It looks like the sort of wacky thing I'd enjoy and the clip I saw featured a very sweet duet between Fu Sheng and Jenny

[morgoth]

It is a pretty fun movie. I watched it a second time and I liked it even more. I give it a 6/10.

[Kung Fu Zombie]

I think it's a beautiful trainwreck. A bizarro cult movie with 5 genres smashed into one. And the fighting's good.

[morgoth]

I remember a thread on this movie a while ago. does anyone know when this movie was made?

[killer meteor]

1980 I think

[BKarza]

Most likely '77 or very early '78. Li Yi Min was gone from Shaw by Five Venoms in '78.

[venomchamber]

I have been fascinated by this film's long history ever since I first enountered an English dubbed bootleg 17 years ago!

Evolution:
It started at Chang's Film Company in 1975 about the same time as Marco Polo and was originally just titled THE HELL.
The film had newcomers Li Yi-Min and Fu Sheng protecting Shih Szu in said inferno, whose costumes and sets looked remarkably like those in The Fantastic Magic Baby.
(I have considered these two films as companion pieces due to their bizarre and surreal nature.)
The film was shelved for future use after Chang Cheh and Liu Chia-Liang broke-up their successful partnership.

In 1976 Shih Szu was out and the film was modified to accomodate Fu Sheng's fiance Jenny Tseng as his love interest and was retitled HEAVEN AND HELL GATE.
The film was shelved again until 1978 after Chang returned to Shaws.

This time Wang Lung-Wei was added to the cast replacing Chiang Tao as the main villain on Earth. (Note Chiang Tao looks different when he is briefly seen speaking to Wang Lung-Wei. Fu Sheng & Jenny now look considerably older during the car sequence as well.) Gone also is Liu Chia-Yung and other early 70s stuntmen (who moved to Liu's camp for Spiritual Boxer) and are replaced by the 'venoms mob' in multiple roles.
What's more, the silent surrealness is gone at this point and the musical acts are now minimized with one song abruptly cut short! The latter 70s sound fx are now present and the film begins to look more and more like The Chinatown Kid.
David Chiang and Maggie Li Lin-Lin's characters are never seen or mentioned again as they were unavailable to work on this project under such an irregular "on again/off again" basis.

The film is shelved again due to Fu Sheng's injuries and is finally released as Heaven And Hell, with the focus now shifted primarily on Lin Chen-Chi and the innocent souls of characters played by Sun Chien, Tang Yen-Tsan, Lo Mang and Kuo Chui in 1980.
The result is an interesting piece of psychodelia encompassing various focal points of Chang's time with the Shaws.

But still, if you enjoyed Ho Meng-Hua's Monkey films as well as Lo Chen's The Snake Prince, then this film is for you! ;)

[morgoth]

Thanks:D

[Steve Barr]

With all the title changes I think they missed the most accurate one: Boring as Hell. Fantastic Magic Baby is much stranger/more interesting, IMO. HaH has some charms, but not enough for me to recommend it.

[Tosh]

This was one strange movie, you can't deny the cast, almost like a Kung Fu acid trip.

[killer meteor]

Saw it today. Terrific fun in my book. Not for the faint-hearted - how they got Chiang Sheng into that costume I'll never know!

[drunkenmantis13]

Watched it last night. I wasn't sure when i saw the intro, but it got interesting.
Really is a crazy mix of horror, cult trash, kung-fu, CC heroic bloodshed, drama, musical...NUTS! But it's great fun.
The film really seems to be one for the first half hour, and another one for the final hour. Actually the first half hour is like many different movies, and the last hour is a crazed out Venoms flick.
I totally bursted in laughter when i saw Chiang Sheng...

[killer meteor]

I think Dick Wei had a similar costume - if it was him, that's the HK equivilant of putting R. Lee Emery in drag

[mantis FIST]

was about what? I just watched it. CC must have taken some really strong ACID! I have to say it was one of the worst shaws I have seen. I don't even know what the movie was about. Seems like Dc was in it for 2 seconds and same goes for Fu Sheng. I think he was there just to sing with Jenny. Did anyone enjoy this?

I am now watching kung-fu instructor. A far superior film!

[KUNG FU BOB]

BAD acid.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

For some reason I really liked Fu Sheng's dance/fight scenes. I enjoyed pretty much the whole movie, with the flashback fight between Kuo Choi and Lu Feng being the highlight!

[Bravery]

I'll probably be in the minority with this, but I actually like this movie. I thought it was a really creative movie. And, I think the action in this movie is pretty good.

[bobo]

i've got the english dub version of this and i watched it once---i'll probably never watch it again. the only thing good about it were the flashback fights--the rest was a waste of talent -time and money. i guess when you make as many movies as the shaws did your bound to make a few duds--but thats just my opinion.:mad:;);)

[vengeanceofhumanlanterns]

"Especially the Kuo Chui vs Lu Feng recollected fight scene."

This highlight in the film is good enough reason for any Venom fan to pick up the film. Otherwise it is just a 'hodge podge' of fragmented filming throughout a few years of shelving.

[teako170]

Venomchamber and I have discussed this movie in the past.
Certainly not for the average KF fan however its a film of notoriety due to its --
outlandish plot & characters, minimalist sets and its perpetual production timeline.

Here's two scans (from 1975 & 76) plugging the film long before it got scraped --
and sat on a shelf till the ol' V-boys bailed it out....

http://www.teako170.com/thehell.jpg
..props to Carol

http://www.teako170.com/thehell2.jpg

[Chinatown Kid]

I could always tell that this film was shot at different time periods because Fu Sheng looks really young a skinny in the early 70's fight scenes and the choreography and the actors MA skill are not as good, then in the mid 70's shot fight scenes Fu Sheng looks chubbier and his face is fatter and the fights he has with Wang Lung Wei and the others look alot better and faster. This was a weird movie and the hell scenes and monster masks looked silly but I do kinda like the film, it's definately something different.

[magicpoe]

Yes indeed a crazy film, I like it. Not something to show a newbie to the Shaw Brothers Library but...

My wife hates this film though and it is one of the few films that she will not sit through with me.

I'd like to see outtakes from the footage we didn't see. I mean look at those stills from the magazine article teako170 posted.

I scanned the stuff below from an issue of Cinemart July 1975 I had.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/magicpoe/HeavenandHellMagazineArticleCinemar.jpg

Interesting little essay from Fu Sheng with a head shot of he and Jenny from maybe Heaven and Hell.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/magicpoe/FuShenghassomewordsHeavenandHellsti.jpg

[teako170]

I scanned the stuff below from an issue of Cinemart July 1975 I had.

Niiice pix MP!

[teako170]

Fu Sheng is wearing a U of H shirt! (University of Hawaii)

Yes, good catch RW. As a kid, he did live in HI (though never attended the U of H).
Here's a photo captured from the Celestial doc when he was involved in Judo/Karate competitions in HI.

http://www.teako170.com/fu_judo.jpg

[Tosh]

Great pics! I've watched this a few times since then, what can I say, I love these kinds of movies, Kung Fu with some fanasy - weirdnest thrown in, I'm all about it.

[XTREMEHORSEMAN]

How much fighting are in these films? I have heard good and bad reviews on both but still want to check them out, I can sit through a bad movie if thair are enough fight scenes. Thanks.

[kungfusamurai]

Martial Club is the one to get if you have to decide between the two. Heaven & Hell has fighting, but the movie is more like an acid trip, and the fights aren't as numerous or interesting as in Martial Club. The Martial Club finale is one of the best ever for kung fu film.

KFS

[Gaijin84]

Martial Club by far - the fights are outstanding. As KFS said, the finale in the alley between Gordon and Johnny is an absolute classic.

[Fang Shih-yu]

Martial Club by far - the fights are outstanding. As KFS said, the finale in the alley between Gordon and Johnny is an absolute classic.

If you like the "Venoms", their fighting in "Heaven and Hell" is good; the fact they were used to help complete an unfinished film is one reason why this movie gets a bad rap! Fu Sheng drew me to the movie in the first place; Fu Sheng AND the "Venoms" make me go back to it again and again! "Martial Club" is better, but "HaH" is fun for all the right AND wrong reasons!:wink:

[CDiablo]

I saw heaven and hell, there was some ok MA's mostly at the end, but as said before a real trip. I felt a lot of fighting was poorly paced and looked scripted. Id say its worth a rent just for the sheer outrageousness of it.

[Jackie Fhan]

Just got both of these recnetly. Haven't watched them yet but you guys have me pumped about Martial!

[Ozark]

Hey guys - new here - but just saw the movie and loved the opening lion dancing. Have a question for y'all. Half way through the movie after the 'boys' make themselves sifus - they have a run in with a real sifu who tells his students to teach them a little lesson. Does anyone know who that sifu is? I seem to remember seeing him somewhere, but can't remember his name for the life of me.

Thanks!

[bobo]

in my opinion HEAVEN AND HELL was another of those movies that was a complete waste of talent--the only fights that were good were the flashback scenes---what they should have done was make a serious movie with those characters. the best word to describe this movie is IDIOTIC. well--someone had to say it.:tongue:

[Wheat Thin Man]

I just saw Martial Club about a week ago and loved it. This movie had great fight scenes; it's also one of the few Lau Kar-Leung films where the humor works.

[Ozark]

http://www.hkcinemagic.com/en/people.asp?id=2497


him?

Right on! Thanks! That's right - I remember him from Super ninjas / 5 Element Ninjas

[Fang Shih-yu]

the best word to describe this movie is IDIOTIC. well--someone had to say it.:tongue:

Even though I like Heaven and Hell, I agree with this! Whatever the original film (as production started, it was called The Hell) was specifically to be, we'll never know. If the Fu Sheng "Earth" sequence (obviously filmed during two different spans of time) is any clue, [at least] one other uncompleted film's footage was utilized in the fleshing out of HaH! (Special note to film students: DON'T write your thesis on this movie!:tongue:)

[peringaten]

Right on! Thanks! That's right - I remember him from Super ninjas / 5 Element Ninjas
Triumph Of Two Kung Fu Arts bills Chow Siu Loi as "Master of Cheng Lung & Seven Lucks" in its opening credits, which I guess would imply he had something to do with kung fu instruction of Jackie & the little fortunes at Yu Jim Yuen's opera school.

[Tosh]

I've watched this a couple times now, it's a clusterfuck of a movie that somehow manages to pull off as an arthouse flick before it's time, and it has some great KF, then again I like off the wall stuff like this:xd:

[nectarsis]

I've watched this a couple times now, it's a clusterfuck of a movie that somehow manages to pull off as an arthouse flick before it's time, and it has some great KF, then again I like off the wall stuff like this:xd:


Completely agree. Even though it is VERY uneven at parts, and a complete clusterfuck with extremely odd edits/scene switches it is just a crazy yet fun movie.

[vengeanceofhumanlanterns]

The Lu Feng and Kuo Chui fight scene recollected is great!

[Noelle Shadow Kick]

The Lu Feng and Kuo Chui fight scene recollected is great!

Yeah, this movie was ridiculous but I would totally buy it based solely on that awesome fight scene.

[kurtz]

Agreed - Just watched today (finally got it after a comment by "bratty",Thanks!).,,

I really enjoyed it - especially found the fight scene with no "impact noises" (Fu Sheng) interesting as it turned it into a stagey play type thing rather than movie fight ..

Overall - interesting watch - something different!

Interestingly my usual dvd supplier had to readd it to their database for me to buy after removing films that were not selling! That was one of them! ;-)