View Full Version : Top 5 Favorite Samurai Classics!
My faves would have to be.
1) Zatoichi meets the One-Armed Swordsman, both of my fave movie industries collide! I couldn't ask for more. Very interesting interaction between both, thrillingly dramatic finale (http://www.veoh.com/videos/v1300581NPRQtEBm?c=MonkeyKingsMovies) as well.
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/6446/f1121ju3.jpg
2) Sanjuro
3) Samurai 7
4) Yojimbo
5) Harakiri
Iron_Jinon
12-03-2007, 03:11 PM
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I am not much into samurai stuff but baby cart series is really good.If any chambara movie tops it,I want to see that film!
I've been looking to watch more from the Lone Wolf and Club series :cool: Shintarô Katsu is the bomb, and his brother proved himself as well.
Iron_Jinon
12-06-2007, 05:25 AM
zatoichi meets onearmed I have not seen...and did read there is 2 different edits,in one they draw and other boxer wins.
i've seen tons of chambara and while i love it all, sadly nothing i've seen yet tops lone wolf and cub. a few things come close, but not quite
Morgoth Bauglir
12-06-2007, 07:38 AM
zatoichi meets onearmed I have not seen...and did read there is 2 different edits,in one they draw and other boxer wins.
Can anyone confirm what exactly happens? I heard they only filmed one version, and for the chinese version they just edited the footage to make it seem like Wang Yu won.
and out of the 6 Z movies I have seen, I like Z Meets the One armed Swordsman the most. Such an awesome movie.
Jeffrey Frawley
12-06-2007, 07:47 AM
I have not seen the Chinese version, but in the Japanese, Zatoichi loses nothing but a potential friend. This seemed appropriate, as Katsu Shintaro's technique was far beyond Wang Yu's.
Morgoth Bauglir
12-06-2007, 08:00 AM
^^^:cool:^^^
Very well stated. The average movie watcher probably wouldn't appreciate zatoichi's skill. I was watching the movie with a friend, and I had to rewind and play the final sword stroke in slow mo like 5 times before he finally said- "wow, that actually was pretty cool."
I know, it's hard to tell how he makes the fatal move. They try to trick you by making it look like Jimmy loses, and then they reveal it. They didn't want to make it too obvious!
In the end it was a great movie, I just didn't think the Japanese directors of the time choreographed things as well. I mean look at it (http://www.veoh.com/videos/v1300581NPRQtEBm?c=MonkeyKingsMovies), some of it just looks like flailing around. I think one of the reasons is because katanas unlike Chinese broad swords are meant to be very exact and firm, not like the Chinese who flow more with their weapons. Even Judo and Karate are more about that, Wushu is all about flowing.
Morgoth Bauglir
12-06-2007, 08:32 AM
I know, it's hard to tell how he makes the fatal move. They try to trick you by making it look like Jimmy loses, and then they reveal it. They didn't want to make it too obvious!
In the end it was a great movie, I just didn't think the Japanese directors of the time choreographed things as well. I mean look at it (http://www.veoh.com/videos/v1300581NPRQtEBm?c=MonkeyKingsMovies), some of it just looks like flailing around. I think one of the reasons is because katanas unlike Chinese broad swords are meant to be very exact and firm, not like the Chinese who flow more with their weapons. Even Judo and Karate are more about that, Wushu is all about flowing.
Zatiochi is just that fast. If you blink you will miss the fatal move. And for 1971, I thought the action in Z Meets the One Armed Swordsman was better than just about any Chinese movie made at the time.
Ouch, be careful. That's something you gotta think about. You really think so! I think it was better than some, but I always thought of Zatoichi having a comic book style of story, it wasn't quite as advanced as some Shaws for example. What do ya think?
Morgoth Bauglir
12-06-2007, 09:06 AM
Ouch, be careful. That's something you gotta think about. You really think so! I think it was better than some, but I always thought of Zatoichi having a comic book style of story, it wasn't quite as advanced as some Shaws for example. What do ya think?
If you read my last post you would see I was talking about the action, not the story. You are the one who said "I just didn't think the Japanese directors of the time choreographed things as well", and I disagree with that.
If you read my last post you would see I was talking about the action, not the story. You are the one who said "I just didn't think the Japanese directors of the time choreographed things as well", and I disagree with that.
Well why do you. Chinese are less dramatic and more about the quick and fierce choreography, the Japanese are more about style. I guess it just depends upon the person. I'm more about the fight than cinematic style. It also depends on my mood!! :p
Morgoth Bauglir
12-06-2007, 09:26 AM
Well why do you. Chinese are less dramatic and more about the quick and fierce choreography
I have never seen any Chinese actor from the the 60's or 70-71 that was quicker than zatoichi.
Yueh Hua and Ti Lung were up there!
Morgoth Bauglir
12-06-2007, 09:29 AM
Yueh Hua and Ti Lung were up there!
They were up there as in being as quick as Zatoichi? You need to watch again.
Morgoth Bauglir
12-06-2007, 09:34 AM
To each his own.
:confused:
"To each his own" applies to the different tastes people have in movies. but if you think Yueh Hua or ti Lung were as quick as Zatoichi, then you are just flat out wrong. That has nothing to do with "to each his own".
It's my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
Morgoth Bauglir
12-06-2007, 09:38 AM
Ti Lung and Yueh Hua are not even close to being as fast as Zatoichi. That is not my opinion, that is fact.
I will say nothing further, Shintaro was the man!
Morgoth Bauglir
12-06-2007, 09:45 AM
Hey, all I am saying is you need to watch again. I don't want you to think I am right just because I say I am right. Watch again, and watch closely. Shintaro was fast as lightning.
WOW! Wait, wait. How could I forget, I just thought of one, and you can't tell me he wasn't. I'll recant what I said, Bruce Lee though was perhaps the only one, you gotta agree.
Morgoth Bauglir
12-06-2007, 09:53 AM
WOW! Wait, wait. How could I forget, I just thought of one, and you can't tell me he wasn't. I'll recant what I said, Bruce Lee though was perhaps the only one, you gotta agree.
Shintaro was not a hand to hand fighter. I don't see any way that you can compare him to Bruce.
I meant speed-wise, that's an interesting comparison nonetheless. Even if they fight differently, am I right. Who is faster.
Morgoth Bauglir
12-06-2007, 10:09 AM
I meant speed-wise, that's an interesting comparison nonetheless. Even if they fight differently, am I right. Who is faster.
I don't know who was faster. Show me a clip of Bruce using a sword, and I may be able to tell you. I don't know of another way to compare them unless I saw them both using a sword.
Nah, it's not that important, I gotta go for now. I wanna end it with this, I don't think he was the fastest. But in the end he was the fastest of the Chambara actors of the time. He made a name for himself like no other.
Japanese swordplay choreography >>> chinese swordplay around that time period. There's a reason why they made shaw directors watch chambara movies for inspiration. The swordfighting SB movies had at the time was often very stilted, and couldn't compare to the awesomely quick fluidity that the japanes were doing at the time.
To tell you the truth, I'd still chose anything from Lau-Kar Leung instead :cool:
Does no one like Chambara!
vengeanceofhumanlanterns
12-12-2007, 05:43 AM
Chambara RULES!!!!!
Morgoth Bauglir
12-12-2007, 05:45 AM
Chambara RULES!!!!!
!!!!
!!!!
Eh, it's just that this thread was gettin no love. Now it is, I feel the love :rolleyes:
daisho2004
12-12-2007, 09:50 AM
OK I didn't get to post my picks of the topJapanese Chambara films yet,but I will add this to end your discussion, Tomisaburo Wakayama is much quicker than his brother Shintaro Katsu, I've never seen anyone who can match his Skill with a Sword in hand. His Brother is a close 2nd. but Wakayama is the Greatest hands down! And its really hard to compare Japanese to Chinese Actors they are to totally different in hand to hand and weapon combat styles, and I love both genres.
Morgoth Bauglir
12-12-2007, 10:02 AM
Yeah Wakayama is very high level. I was just saying that Katsu is faster than Yueh Hua and Ti Lung, but you are right, they are hard to compare because the Japanese and Chinese styles are so different.
I agree, the genres are soooooooooooooo different. Obviously we'll never know for sure, but I still have to say I don't think Shintaro is as good a swordsman as Toshiro Mifune for instance. He's faster, just not as good, I think his back-handed style is much more interesting to watch though!
daisho2004
12-12-2007, 11:57 AM
Tomisaburo Wakayama is most probably the Greatest Swordsman who ever graced the Silver Screen. His skill with a Sword is second to none. In Zatoichi when he twirled around his sword and returned it to his scabbard while he was a One Armed Ronin that was something that was almost impossible for any Actor to do, but he did it in a blink of any eye.
Morgoth Bauglir
12-12-2007, 05:31 PM
That must be from Zatoichi part 2. AWESOME movie. I will have to rewatch it just to see that scene you are talking about Daisho. One thing I learned from Zatoichi #2 is that you don't fuck with Z's family.
That must be from Zatoichi part 2. AWESOME movie. I will have to rewatch it just to see that scene you are talking about Daisho. One thing I learned from Zatoichi #2 is that you don't fuck with Z's family.
............ever!
This is killin me, nobody likes Chambara. I wanna hear some new opinions!
Iron_Jinon
12-29-2007, 01:40 AM
dun take it so seriously mate..chanbara is not so exciting anyway(ogami itto would maybe disagree to this)..."son of black mass" is cool character but in general chinese films far more interesting.
i'm with you sifu, i like chambara more than hk swordplay as well
as much as i like old shaw swordplay, very few wuxia can be considered on the same level with Seven Samurai or Yojimbo or the Samurai Trilogy or Sword of Doom or Hatakiri or Tenchu. it's just a whole another level of film making as far as plotting and cinematography are concerned
i'm with you sifu, i like chambara more than hk swordplay as well
Sorry dude, I agree the stories are usually more interesting, but I never said I liked one over the other. They each focus on different elements, that's what makes them unique.
Iron_Jinon
12-29-2007, 03:51 AM
that is maybe why I like wu xia movies of 1960`s so much...they combine often strong storyline I like and violent swordplay.sometimes I forget both though and just enjoy awesome shaw bros sets:o
kungfusamurai
12-29-2007, 10:47 AM
I don't know what it is about the chinese swordplay genre. It's not the flying or the really fake looking sets that turn me off, because I don't mind them in kung fu films. Perhaps the stories are just too long-winded. They introduce a thousand characters, involve a plot that's so convoluted it's hard to follow, and worst of all, many seem to have too many body doubles in the fight scenes. Really obvious body doubles. More often than in empty handed combat, kung fu flicks.
Japanese sword films seem to be much deeper for some reason, and are more substance than flash. And the swordfighters do their own swinging, it doesn't cut to some body double doing it for them.
Some swordplay is cool, like the stuff with the venoms, and the weapons movies by Lau Kar Leung are awesome, so it might be more of a problem I have with the directors who made the chinese sword films. Plus, I dislike guys like Derek Yee and Roc Tien and Adam Cheng. I don't find their weapons play as good as the guys in venoms or lau kar leung films.
Overall, though, I think Japanese sword films are just better made on all levels, with careful thought put into each film and it's meaning (i.e. more artistic integrity), whereas the chinese swordplay flicks were just pure entertainment. But I'm really comparing, in my mind, 60s to early 70s japanese swordplay (the golden period, as far as I'm concerned) to late 70s/80s chinese swordplay. The 60s to early 70s chinese sword films are unwatchable to me. And the late 70s/80s Japanese sword films feature some great fighting, but lack the quality in story, cinematography and overall 'artsiness' that the films of the golden period of chambara had.
KFS
Iron_Jinon
12-29-2007, 10:55 AM
They introduce a thousand characters<=that is dead true with so-called classic "water margin"..I am not sure which is worse mess original over 2 hours runtime or US edit"7 blows of the dragon",too many characters and subplots kill it anyway...lone wolf and cub even as great movies somehow work even better on comics.both are equally violent but drama was lost when turned to film.still enjoyable so much.
Morgoth Bauglir
12-29-2007, 12:19 PM
I like samurai movies a lot because they are well directed and usually have a good dark story. There are some Chinese swordplays that have that, but not enough of them. I am not saying I like Japanese more than Chinese swordplays, it just depends on what I am in the mood for.
Japanese sword films seem to be much deeper for some reason, and are more substance than flash. And the swordfighters do their own swinging, it doesn't cut to some body double doing it for them.
Some swordplay is cool, like the stuff with the venoms, and the weapons movies by Lau Kar Leung are awesome, so it might be more of a problem I have with the directors who made the chinese sword films. Plus, I dislike guys like Derek Yee and Roc Tien and Adam Cheng. I don't find their weapons play as good as the guys in venoms or lau kar leung films.
Overall, though, I think Japanese sword films are just better made on all levels, with careful thought put into each film and it's meaning (i.e. more artistic integrity), whereas the chinese swordplay flicks were just pure entertainment. But I'm really comparing, in my mind, 60s to early 70s japanese swordplay (the golden period, as far as I'm concerned) to late 70s/80s chinese swordplay. The 60s to early 70s chinese sword films are unwatchable to me. And the late 70s/80s Japanese sword films feature some great fighting, but lack the quality in story, cinematography and overall 'artsiness' that the films of the golden period of chambara had.
KFS
Well if anything the Chinese Wuxia were all heavily influnced by Chambra, the Japanese really did something special in the 50's, influencing cinema all over the world to this day. I agree most KF movies are pure entertainment, most fail to reach the dramatic impact a good Samurai film has, there are the exceptions - Bells of Death, Tiger Killer - to name a few. Though I'm equally a fan of both genres for different reasons, sometimes I want a dead serious plot drivin revenge flick, sometimes I want actrobatic Kung Fu crazyness, just depends on the mood.
kungfusamurai
12-30-2007, 10:46 AM
Yeah, I guess it all depends on the mood. Usually I have to be in the mood to watch one of the chinese wuxia flicks, but at the end of it, I don't feel moved by any of the films or thought 'wow, I'm glad I saw that'. Maybe I'm still searching for a good one. I can't even think of which ones I've seen. Deadly Breaking Sword, definitely. One or two of those Clans films with Ti Lung. And The Sword with Adam Cheng. Funny thing, though, I actually like the chinese sword play stuff from the 80s onward. I should have mentioned that in my earlier post. Anything like the Tsui Hark flicks or Duel To The Death style of film making is right up my alley!
KFS
DAJIZZARIZZA
12-30-2007, 07:40 PM
You know after thinking it over a bit,... a samurai needed to be fast in swordsplay ,.. afterall they had to ward off the ninja , and who's faster than ninjas?
then i recall the Shaw Bros. movie "Heroes of the East" ,now would you say Gordon Liu sword skill could hold up against a Zatoichi ?
Iron_Jinon
12-31-2007, 01:58 AM
now would you say Gordon Liu sword skill could hold up against a Zatoichi ?
chinese does not need sword against japanese,bare hands enough..that is proven in 5 element ninjas,samurai has no chances when lo mang closes the gap:eek:;););)
kungfusamurai
12-31-2007, 08:40 AM
You guys are hilarious! In reality, a samurai would kill you without thinking. Barehands versus a samurai sword? LOL! Not even a ninja would go one on one against a samurai. Why else did they have those tricks in their bags? Not to kill a samurai, but to ensure a safe and speedy getaway if a samurai did show up.
KFS
kungfusamurai
01-01-2008, 12:32 PM
I guess you could say that, but it's an opinion shared by many. Samurai not only trained in the sword, but also used daggers, bows & arrows, and depending on what clan you belonged to, knew some form of empty hand combat like jiujitsu. Plus they were not afraid to die, and a lot of fighting is dependent on a strong mental state. If you're too pre-occupied with worry about dying, then that can cause you to make mistakes in judgement.
KFS
I guess you could say that, but it's an opinion shared by many. Samurai not only trained in the sword, but also used daggers, bows & arrows, and depending on what clan you belonged to, knew some form of empty hand combat like jiujitsu. Plus they were not afraid to die, and a lot of fighting is dependent on a strong mental state. If you're too pre-occupied with worry about dying, then that can cause you to make mistakes in judgement.
KFS
Wow, that's not what I was talkin about :D
kungfusamurai
01-03-2008, 04:48 AM
Wow, that's not what I was talkin about :D
LOL! No problem! Nevermind... :)
KFS
5 Element Boxer
01-26-2008, 05:19 AM
1. Shogun Assassin (English)
2. Seven Samurai
3. Samurai Rebellion
4. Rashomon
5. Twilight Samurai
There's more thast I liked alot, but these come to mind first above all.
The Toad
01-28-2008, 06:39 AM
1. Shogun Assassin
2. The Yagyu Conspierecy
3. Swords of Vengeance
4. Samurai Reincarnation
5. Seven Samurai
TrickyNicky
03-30-2008, 04:37 AM
Sanjuro
Zatoichi: Darkness is his ally
Zatoichi meets Yojimbo
Harakiri
Sword of Doom
In no particular order.
Tantheman
03-30-2008, 01:17 PM
1. Sword of Doom
2. Babycart at the River Styx
3. Harakiri
4. Yojimbo
5. Samurai Rebellion
I would agree with what has been said about the Wuxia vs Samurai movie argument, extremely hard to compare the two. However, In comparing films from the 60s/70s, there is only one wuxia that can compare to the substance over style form that Samurai movies took: The Sword. One of my fave movies of all time, very deep and atmospheric
whitelotus
03-31-2008, 06:26 PM
"Heroes of the East" ,now would you say Gordon Liu sword skill could hold up against a Zatoichi "
Never...ever...ever...now show master Ichi some respect...lol
legacy1974
04-04-2008, 01:37 AM
Zatoichi meets the One-Armed Swordsman is a fave of mine
Good movie, not really near to Kurosawa's level. But considering we're all Kung Fu/MA fans as well it's a perfect clash of the cultures! :D Loved it.
Morgoth Bauglir
04-04-2008, 02:45 AM
Brilliant movie. "If only we could have understood each other"
Brilliant movie. "If only we could have understood each other"
Good final line! But still, you gotta wonder how Wang Kang just MAGICALLY figured out what had really happened right before he died :p
Well I had my list on another thread somewhere, so I'll just post again.
Harakiri
Sword of Doom
Yojimbo
The Betrayal
Seven Samurai
Nakadai
05-09-2008, 11:06 AM
I suck at compiling lists.... I stare at them for hours, changing them around constantly. In the end i'm never satisfied. I will say this, Seppuku is easily my favorite. No Samurai film since my initial introduction to the genre with Shogun Assassin has left as profound impression on me.
Now back to skilled fighters.... Wakayama is insane. No one comes close to him on screen, from what i've seen. Though his brother definitely takes a well respected second place for those lightning slashes of doom he deals.
Seriously though, i'm in wonderment every time I see Wakayama take up fight. It's an exhilarating watch for certain!
Gotta add the Hiroshi Inagaki Samurai trilogy to my faves as well. Great three films, all starring Mifune of course. Interestingly, the first film won the academy award for Best "Foreign Language Film", even beating Seven Samurai!
I
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/3746/samurai1mmou3.jpg
II
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/8265/fcad1ly6.jpg
III
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/6809/samurai3dagirq1.jpg
Anbody else a fan of the trilogy.
Morgoth Bauglir
05-26-2008, 09:35 PM
I saw the first one, and it bored the hell out of me.
daisho2004
05-26-2008, 09:35 PM
Great Trilogy not to much action more of a Great storyline, but then again anything with Mifune is great. They have been a few movies based on his Battle on Ganryu Island from both sides very good movies.
I saw the first one, and it bored the hell out of me.
You have to watch all 3, the first one gets all the (more or less)training out of the way, the second one starts with him being a Samurai and let go to travel the country side to learn(and fight), the major payoff comes when he heads into an ambush(after being told) of about 80 Samurai, not to be missed imo.
TibetanWhiteCrane
05-27-2008, 02:58 PM
The lonewolf and cub series is my favourite in the samurai genre! I'll leave the long winded, existential black and white flicks to the film snobs, and the bad kill bill hollywood hackjobs to the adolescent fanboys. This is all I need. A man, his son, his sword and a babycart.
Some people (wrongly) view them as exploitation films, and I just don't get that! It is probably due to the nudity and rape scenes. But all those scenes have meaning, and leads to some plot point or twist. They serve the story and are not tacked on to sell tickets to pervs!
You could argue that the excessive blood spraying has an exploitive feel to it, but again... that was the style, and it's not like they go out of their way to make it look authentic!
I also think the series has a lot of heart and humanity. Especially in the scenes with Ogami and Daigoro! He might slice twenty people up in front of his small son, but he also bathes him, keeps him warm, tucks him in and finds some leafs for Daigoro to wipe his ass in, when taking a dump in the woods! It is those little affectionate throw-away moments between father and son, that makes this more than hack and slash exploitation to me!
I also find the stories interesting, and every movie serves up some new colorful characters and villains. The sets and locations are beautiful. The costumes feels authentic, the music is just right and the cinematography is innovative and way beyond, what you find in so called exploitation films. In short, these movies are must haves.
Morgoth Bauglir
05-27-2008, 08:32 PM
hmmm, thanks for the info Tosh. If I watch it again I will make sure to watch all 3. After struggling through the first one I figured there wasn't much of a point for me to watch the other 2.
daisho2004
05-27-2008, 09:11 PM
TibetanWhiteCrane: if you thought the LW&C movies were good wait to watch the TV series it was Awesome. And it really got into the Bond between Father & Son unlike how the movies only did it in a few scenes. Everything he did you find out was more for his Son's future to restore the Family's name.
TibetanWhiteCrane
05-28-2008, 01:13 PM
Sounds cool...! I've been interested in seeing the TV show for quite some time! I know it's out now, maybe I should check it out!
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