Did Bruce Lee appear in any if Shaw movies?

[kwon35]

friend said he did but can't remember the movie. I can't find nothing to back his statement.

[bravearcher101]

The answer to your question, is no Bruce Lee never made a movie at Shaw Brothers. Bruce visit the studio set for pictures and that it, there're no Shaw Brother movie with him in it. Think about if he did don't you think they would have put that one out, because it would be a rare movie.

[niro]

The answer to your question, is no Bruce Lee never made a movie at Shaw Brothers. Bruce visit the studio set for pictures and that it, there're no Shaw Brother movie with him in it. Think about if he did don't you think they would have put that one out, because it would be a rare movie.

it would have definitely brought in big money

[Monk Sante]

I have seen pics of Bruce hanging out on the set of 'Blood Brothers'. There's also pictures of Bruce posing in front of a brick wall wearing the old period costumes........does anyone know if theses pics were shot at the Shaws studio? :cool:

[Endsang]

He should have worked with Shaw. Then his movies might just have been watchable.

Yeah, I said it. :)

[Mark Pollard]

It's true, Bruce Lee was first courted by Shaw Brothers and did some test shots in typical Chang Cheh-style period costuming of the era with arm bands and such. He never appeared in one of their movies though. Having already worked in Hollywood where the pay was better, he refused SB's meager offer and instead joined rival studio Golden Harvest and subsequently turned it into the international powerhouse that it became for roughly 20 years.

All of the martial arts movies Lee starred in were productions or co-productions of Golden Harvest.

Maybe someone could dig up one of those Bruce Lee test shots at SB. They're pretty interesting and very unlike the look Lee adopted in his actual films.

[teako170]

http://www.teako170.com/blee_shaw1.jpg

http://www.teako170.com/blee_shaw2.jpg

http://www.teako170.com/blee_shaw3.jpg

http://www.teako170.com/blee_shaw4.jpg
...props to Carol

[Mark Pollard]

Way to go teako. Love the expression on Lee's face in the photo top right.

[Monk Sante]

Thats Zatoichi! Bruce was a big fan of his films. :cool:

[David Rees]

Heres some more:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/drees5761/shaw_11.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/drees5761/shawvisit2.jpg

BRUCE LEE LEGENDS OF THE DRAGON BOOK..HERE! (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=4&campid=5335857173&toolid=10001&customid=kf+forum&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2FBruce-Lee-Photo-Book-Legends-Of-The-Dragon-Hard-Cover_W0QQitemZ200229364852QQihZ010QQcategoryZ378Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

[Markgway]

Cool photos... some I've never seen before.

[gorhama]

Thanks for the photos. I have seen some of those before. It would be interesting to think what if Bruce Lee signed with Shaw Brothers. Oh the movies that could have been made considering how good his with Golden Harvest were.

[David Rees]

Whats interesting is that Bruce visited Shaws a few times, he visited the set of The Lizard, Intimate Confessions Of A Chinese Courtesan and Blood Brothers.
The traditional pics of Bruce with the wall in the background were actually shot at Golden Harvest i believe and not Shaws.
These pics below (shot in 1973) and lots of others are at Shaws, wouldnt it be great if they shot some test footage too....you never know.:)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/drees5761/shaw_10.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/drees5761/shaw_08.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/drees5761/shaw_03.jpg

[Winfred]

There's something about his eyes in these photos that spell STAR!

[SamuraiDana]

Bruce Lee and Lau Kar Leung - what a combo that would have made. They might have had serious disagreements over what styles to employ, but the result would have been compelling no matter what.

And I agree with Endsang. Sadly, Bruce died before he could make even one good movie.

[gorhama]

I'll be the first to say everyone has the right to their opinions. I must ask though...Endsang and SamuraiDana there isn't a single Bruce Lee movie you thought was good? Or was it the movie sucked but you enjoyed Bruce Lee's performance?

Again not trying to start anything just curious. :D

[Monk Sante]

A good 65% of the martial arts films around this era (1970-1973) really sucked. I could only imagen if Bruce was around for the late 70s, im sure his films would have been a lot better. His performances in his films are still second to none IMO. :cool:

[venoms5]

I'll be the first to say everyone has the right to their opinions. I must ask though...Endsang and SamuraiDana there isn't a single Bruce Lee movie you thought was good? Or was it the movie sucked but you enjoyed Bruce Lee's performance?

Again not trying to start anything just curious. :D

I think there was already a thread devoted to this topic so apologies for further derailing things but I don't like his movies either. Bruce brought an American sensibility to his HK films and had not GH given in to his demands, in all probability, GH would have been no more. The reason he is put on such a godly pedestal isn't so much his skill level, but because he is dead a la John Wayne, Elvis, James Dean, ad infinitum...not to mention dying at the top of his popularity.

Aside from the difference in choreo, ie numerous scenes of throwaway bad guys standing there while Bruce the Invincible kicks them into oblivion, it seems to be excusable for his movies to feature shoddy production values or mediocre filmmaking but yet the same thing is ridiculed in easily superior productions. The main difference being the main characters don't spend five minutes of screen time every fight threatening to burst veins in the sides of their head all the while making animal sounds with fists clenched tightly. Bruce, the man was great, his movies, IMO, were not.

Anyways, I have some other pics of Bruce wearing the familiar Shaw Brothers studded arm bracelets and hair piece in an old book on Lee and Jackie Chan from the time of the release of BATTLECREEK BRAWL if I can find it.

[Endsang]

Bruce, the man was great, his movies, IMO, were not.

That pretty much sums up my opinion as well. He was no doubt a magnificent martial artist, but there was nothing interesting about his movies, nor the action choreography.

To answer your question gorhama, I have all the essential Bruce Lee movies, where I have watched each of them only once, except Enter the Dragon, which I have seen twice because of the James Bond feel to it. I have also seen Tower of Death a couple of times for the final fight, but I don't really consider that a Bruce Lee movie. The rest I haven't, and won't, bother with again. The settings are just plain boring and predictable, and there's not a lot of excitement around watching Bruce Lee scowling angrily and throwing some cocky kicks and punches without taking any beating himself. So no, I don't really like any of his movies, I just rate them compared to eachother and find Enter the Dragon the most bearable. :)

Back to the thread: A lot of cool pictures, and I think he definately could have fit in an early Shaw basher. Would have been more interesting to see him deal with some more complicated shapes choreo if he had lived throughout the 70s.

[David Rees]

Everyone is entitled to there opinion of course, but comparing Bruce's films to those that were released around the same time they were miles ahead in choreography and most of all his on screen charisma. Im sure both those aspects would have developed had he lived.

[SamuraiDana]

I'll be the first to say everyone has the right to their opinions. I must ask though...Endsang and SamuraiDana there isn't a single Bruce Lee movie you thought was good? Or was it the movie sucked but you enjoyed Bruce Lee's performance?

Again not trying to start anything just curious. :D

Of his four movies (I won't count GAME OF DEATH because I don't consider it a "true" Bruce Lee movie), I like THE CHINESE CONNECTION (aka FISTS OF FURY) the best. At least it has an interesting plot worthy of Bruce's talents. The others are simply not well-written or well-directed movies. Bruce is great in them, but he deserved much better and he would have gotten much better had he lived. The scenes with Bruce in ENTER THE DRAGON are quite compelling, but the scenes without him are just deadly. The plotting is really stupid and the whole idea of Bruce being an agent for the British colonial government rubs a lot of us kung fu fans the wrong way. But at least we got to hear Bruce's real voice in it.

As for CHINESE CONNECTION, even it pales, as a kung fu film, to many other films of the era. I'm thinking of stuff being done at Shaw Bros. at the time, such as DUEL OF THE IRON FIST and BOXER FROM SHANTUNG, both of which have similar historical settings to the Lee film. Their stars may not have been as intense, as skilled, or as charismatic as Bruce, but the films were better written, designed, and staged. Lo Wei was a competent director, but not a particularly visionary one. In contrast, Lau Kar Leung, first an action director at Shaw and then a director, was a truly innovative filmmaker as well as fight choreographer.

And I've seen Bruce's films multiple times, beginning with big-screen viewings when they were first released (I saw THE CHINESE CONNECTION before Bruce died), and I plan to revisit them again. Despite their flaws, they're still important kung fu films and deserve to be studied.

[gorhama]

Excellent reponse SamuariDana.....very cool that you were able to see Fists of Fury before Bruce Lee died. I was not so lucky being as when I was born and all. Bruce Lee movies were the first introduction I had to Hong Kong cinema growing up. I do agree with your statements and Fists of Fury is without a doubt my favorite as well.

Now that I'm older and have more appreication for martial arts movies and have been collecting them, I will agree that the overall production and quality of Shaws were much greater than what Bruce had at Golden Harvest.

It's fun and sad at the same time to think about what Bruce could have gone on to do had he not died so suddenly (I think the same thing about his son who IMO was a great actor and screen fighter as well). Still with what he had Bruce Lee shown through better than any other would have.

Again thanks for the excellent conversations on this board.

Also if this has been brought up in another topic I do apologize.

[SamuraiDana]

I should add that I made return trips that summer (1973) to see both THE CHINESE CONNECTION and ENTER THE DRAGON. Bruce was a cultural hero in my inner city neighborhood (as he was in similar neighborhoods around the country) and his image was everywhere long after he died. These films had a powerful impact. Seven years later, when a friend of mine came back home from a stint in the Air Force, we celebrated by going downtown to Manhattan's notorious 42nd Street to see--what else?--ENTER THE DRAGON. (It was on a double bill with THE FISTS OF BRUCE LEE.)

It wasn't until years later when I had the chance to catch up on dozens of kung fu films I'd missed (and I thank the 43rd Chamber for that) that I was able to compare the Lee films to all the other stuff that had been produced at the time, and appreciate a host of kung fu directors whom I hadn't really been exposed to before, and develop a more critical attitude.

[gorhama]

I would have loved to see any Bruce Lee movie in the theaters with a crowd of fans. Actually I would have loved to catch any kung fu movies in a crowded theater full of fans. Alas I came into the world too late for that. Thankfully I can get them on DVD and enjoy them over and over again.

I will say that while I enjoy Bruce's movies mainly for Bruce....once I got fully emersed in Hong Kong cinema...I find my self watching Lau's film's along with, Jackie, Sammo and Yuen Biao more than his because the level of fight choreography was so much better and advanced by that time.

[Kwok Choi]

Rumours rumours rumours - some say Bruce was gonna sign up at Shaws and do some movies with Chu Yuan and other directors at SB that he admired - rumours - we shall never know.
Rumours rumours rumours - how many millions could Raymond Chow have paid more than the almighty Shaws or was it simply a future potential clash of egos that lured him to Golden Harvest (on Bruce's terms)? Who knows what exactly transpired?
Fact - regardless of what anyone thinks of Bruce's films, opponents or choreography Bruce doesn't play-fight, he whips ass and the ass stays whipped.Afterwards the ass marvels at how seriously it was whipped.
Like it or not,when Bruce arrived on the scene,there was absolutely nothing remotely seen in movies anywhere on planet earth like his fighting techniques.
Bruce's contribution , the amount of famous stars and people he inspired today in the transformation of the worldwide kung fu / martial arts industry should never be taken for granted.

[Chinatown Kid]

Rumours rumours rumours - some say Bruce was gonna sign up at Shaws and do some movies with Chu Yuan and other directors at SB that he admired - rumours - we shall never know.
Rumours rumours rumours - how many millions could Raymond Chow have paid more than the almighty Shaws or was it simply a future potential clash of egos that lured him to Golden Harvest (on Bruce's terms)? Who knows what exactly transpired?
Fact - regardless of what anyone thinks of Bruce's films, opponents or choreography Bruce doesn't play-fight, he whips ass and the ass stays whipped.Afterwards the ass marvels at how seriously it was whipped.
Like it or not,when Bruce arrived on the scene,there was absolutely nothing remotely seen in movies anywhere on planet earth like his fighting techniques.
Bruce's contribution , the amount of famous stars and people he inspired today in the transformation of the worldwide kung fu / martial arts industry should never be taken for granted.

I couldn't have said it better myself Kwok Choi, well put. :cool:

[daTOAD]

I agree Kwok Choi.IMOwhat he was in real life ,not movies, made him the star he is.

[The Dragon]

You guys are gonna make me cry... :p


:cool:

[David Rees]

Its not rumours, in his diary, he stated that he was putting sept/oct 1973 aside for Shaws. If he would have done it is questionable because obviously he did not know how successful Enter The Dragon was going to be and what offers were to come after it.

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[Chinatown Kid]

From what I understand Bruce's goal was to become a major Hollywood star so after Enter the Dragon's success he probably would have went American mainstream where the big bucks were had he lived.

[venoms5]

Its not rumours, in his diary, he stated that he was putting sept/oct 1973 aside for Shaws. If he would have done it is questionable because obviously he did not know how successful Enter The Dragon was going to be and what offers were to come after it.


I was under the impression Shaw's was where he went first before Golden Harvest. 1973 would be after.

[David Rees]

This was written in his diary around June/ July 1973, so he obviously had a deal in the pipeline. He visited Shaws 1969 / 1970 to try and get a deal but they just offered him a standard contract which he refused

[Kwok Choi]

With all due respect David Rees and this is not for argument sake putting Sept/Oct aside in his diary could relate to quite a number of issues to do with Shaws that were not specific because no one to date (I believe that at least Linda,some Shaw executives and Bruce's close friends etc might have been privy to some aspect of this deal/deals ) has precisely pinpointed his exact intentions.Confidentiality should not still be an issue in this matter posthumously so all deals or other projects and intentions should have been made public today ala The Silent Flute.
It should also be remembered that though Bruce saw the final cut of Enter The Dragon at a private preview screening he did not live to see the movie's general release and worldwide success so this highlight of his career which was yet to come cannot obviously have had any influence on his decision making with regards to Shaws during or before this period.
Let's assume Bruce did Longstreet,Big Boss,Fist Of Fury,The Way Of The Dragon and Enter The Dragon between 1971 - 1973, his next project I assume would have been The Game Of Death ( there is room for debate here regarding other projects so feel free to air your views ) therefore it would have been a bit odd to pencil in Sept/Oct 1973 or June/July 73 for Shaws unless he was planning to shoot the Shaw film/films in a month.Anyway at this point he would have been so successful and independent - had he lived and benefitted from Enter.... - that unless he had previously signed a contract and was under some legally binding obligation to make the Shaw film/films, the possibly of Bruce Lee's Shaw products might have been slim at this stage.
Lets also bear in mind that Enter The Dragon was a very troubled shoot so even after it's phenomenal worldwide success the chances of Bruce heading straight into another American co - production would have been delayed till all differences which almost shelved Enter..... were sorted because it is posible that Bruce would still have wanted to use the talents of the Hong Kong players and crew which can further be construed that Bruce could have done Game Of Death or The Silent Flute before a fully financed Hollywood movie making the chance of doing a Shaw film in that time frame even slimmer as Golden Havest and Concord Films would have priority during this lull.Therefore till someone de-mystifies the myth with facts,the Shaws movies at that time frame of 1971 - 1973 can be tantamount to rumours.

[David Rees]

Good points Kwok Choi, pencilled in for Shaws could have meant anything but he did go as far as having test shots in traditional costume as seen above.
Personally i dont think he would have stayed in HK and would have moved to Hollywood and worked there. Its such a shame that he or even his son Brandon for that matter didnt get a chance to do a balls out traditional kung fu movie.

[Raul4510]

What is sad is that there are still so many mysteries surrounding his death. It's just so hard to accept the story about him dying from a reaction to a pill. How many people out there still suspect he was murdered? I believe like most that after the success of Enter The Dragon Bruce would have ended up in Hollywood for the long haul. I highly doubt that he would have made anymore Hong Kong films. Or even finished The Game of Death. Who knows??

[Way of the Dragon]

I heard Bruce Lee was going to be in a film for the Shaw Brothers called 'Dragon of Jade' some of the pics people have posted are the screentests for that film.
I love how he looks in those pics.

[The Dragon]

Time for me to add my two cents...
First of all, it was stated back in '73 by none other than James Coburn,(attempting to lure Lee back to The Silent Flute project by FOX), Lee said to him when he visited HK: " If Paramount can give Brando a million dollars, The Shaws can do the same here, for me." It was a plan of Lee's and a ploy to make a real quality MA film with the biggest studio in Southeast Asia, The Shaw Bros., on his terms. Shaw had already sent a correspondance asking Lee to "name his price." Various writers had begun preparing scripts, and director's names began to get tossed about. Chor Yuan was believed to have an inside track because of his "friendship" with Lee. Run Run also had people at every level inside the production of ETD who reported all information on the project, actually believing it may not finish due to the difficulties between the HK and US crews. Raymond Chow was aware of Shaws tampering with Lee, and really didn't set well with the idea.
Game of Death was being filmed and passed off as an idea Lee had "floating" around. According to Tom Bleecker, Linda Lee's 2nd hubby, Lee was not under contract with a studio, and had only formed Concord partnering with Chow, and the Triads were hot on Bruce's ass for co-operation, Tea Money.
Therefore, GOD was shot in GH Studios, with their equipment, but without contracted production people. It was similar to the production of WOTD, but even moreso this time around. That's why Lee did so much himself, even set design and Cinematography. You honestly think there were no competent people to assist with this production? Remember the stories about Lee being upset at Raymond about finances regarding WOTD? They were told, do not work on this production; another reason Bruce looked toward his comrades in the US to act is, he couldn't use Triad employed actors. James Tien and Chieh Yuen were not contracted by the studio at the time. It's another reason Lee went to the New Territories to shoot, and rehearse. GOD was also going to be made in Korea, outside HK, where certain non contracted actors could work freely. Sammo, who was originally cast by Bruce to play Chieh Yuen's role, bailed on Lee, pretending he didn't know the production had started. He was GH's in-house choreographer. It was his job to know about productions. Strange eh? Lee insisted he be there for ETD so he wouldn't lose face and Sammo relented.
No my friends it wasn't a rumour, Lee intended to make a Shaw film, if for no other reason than to "thumb his nose" at Chow, and Shaw could have protected Lee... who also referred to Run Run as "Uncle". When Jimmy Wang Yu wanted his independance from Shaws, a deal was made, however, he could never film a movie in HK again... and that was '70-'71!!! before Lee's career took off! What would be Lee's (who became way bigger that Jimmy Wang Yu overnight), severence pay for leaving Chow, the man who gave him his "chance" for his most hated rival?....

Bodybag:mad:
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z38/stormybman/858fscd.jpg

The Dragon has spoken.

[venoms5]

Very fascinating read, Dragon!:D

[thelastweaponmaster]

Just to add my 2 cents worth, when you watch the Game of Death footage that Bruce completed before Enter the Dragon, I don't think the various martial arts scenes were all that sophisticated or exciting. In fact they were disappointing; offset by the fact these were the last filmed footage of the Legend to be seen by the public. Bruce's battle scene in Han's cave against many opponents using multiple weapons was classic, building up in sophistication to a most satisfying climax with the unveiling of his nunchaku. Though 'Enter' wasn't Bruce's best film, the cave fight scene is something that I can watch over and over again. You wonder what Bruce would had done if he had lived (besides turning 68 this year), In comparison, the Game of Death scenes were simplistic and disjointed.

In my mind, after Enter the Dragon, I think Bruce would had gone back and refilmed some of the Game of Death pagoda scenes to improve them in terms of excitement and flow.

[Killer Meteor]

I think the footage is good when edited well, which ironically it is in the 78 film. It's fast moving, dynamic and well scored. The two reconstructions seen earlier this decade are slow moving and overlong. It doesn't help that Ji Han Jae, for all his real life credentials, is one of the least impressive on screen fighters i've ever seen

I often wondered if the footage was more for test purposes or something. Seems very odd to shoot a film with an incomplete cast - where were the other comrades of Bruce? Where were the other guardians? Imagine the continuity flaws (esp Bruce's weight!) if the existing footage had been used in a proper feature

Just to add my 2 cents worth, when you watch the Game of Death footage that Bruce completed before Enter the Dragon, I don't think the various martial arts scenes were all that sophisticated or exciting. In fact they were disappointing; offset by the fact these were the last filmed footage of the Legend to be seen by the public. Bruce's battle scene in Han's cave against many opponents using multiple weapons was classic, building up in sophistication to a most satisfying climax with the unveiling of his nunchaku. Though 'Enter' wasn't Bruce's best film, the cave fight scene is something that I can watch over and over again. You wonder what Bruce would had done if he had lived (besides turning 68 this year), In comparison, the Game of Death scenes were simplistic and disjointed.

In my mind, after Enter the Dragon, I think Bruce would had gone back and refilmed some of the Game of Death pagoda scenes to improve them in terms of excitement and flow.

[Markgway]

I happen to think that the reconstructed GOD footage (40 mins approx) is the best work Bruce ever did. Had he gotten to finish we may have been talking about a classic all these years later.

Far too many conspiracy theories about Bruce (and his death) and not enough hard fact.

And James Tien was contracted to Golden Harvest when Game of Death was made. They had hopes of making him a star and he was miffed when Bruce came along and he had to play second fiddle. Then Wang Yu started to work for Harvest and same thing happened again. Tien never really got much of a break because there was always somebody bigger to take his place.

Also people assume that the Pagoda footage was the end of the movie and that after Kareem it was THE END. But I doubt that. He still had to deal with the people who had kidnapped his sister. And that could have been any number of the actors Bruce spoke to in regards to completing the film (Sammo? George Lazenby? Bolo?)

[Raul4510]

[The Dragon]What would be Lee's (who became way bigger that Jimmy Wang Yu overnight), severence pay for leaving Chow, the man who gave him his "chance" for his most hated rival?....

I think Raymond Chow had Bruce Lee killed because he didn't want to lose him to The Shaws or America. He knew if Bruce had huge success with Enter The Dragon that there was a good chance Bruce would be gone for good from Golden Harvest and once Lee was a huge enough star to write his own ticket anywhere in the world Chow wouldn't be able to touch him. It all kind of makes sense. I never really bought into the whole story about working on the script for Game of Death. For all we know Game of Death was already done and Chow is hiding it because he needed an alibi!

[Raul4510]

Here is an article I found:

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/ray.d8/article8.html

The Real Game Begins...

This is the story surrounding the making of Bruce Lee's "Game Of Death".

Raymond Chow has laid a screen of lies around Bruce Lee's most important project. He is a master of the carefully prepared public image. This man radiates calmness, with his quiet voice and almost permanent smile. But behind that smile lie some very sharp teeth, as many have found out. Like most successful businessmen, loyalty does not seem to be a word in Chow's vocabulary, and this is a key point to remember in relation to Bruce Lee and Game Of Death.

Bruce Lee signed with Raymond Chow to do "The Big Boss" and "Fist Of Fury" for a meer £3000 per film. These films were huge box-office successes that added to Chow's financial gain, but most importantly saved "Golden Harvest" from probable extinction. Now that his initial contract with "Golden Harvest" was complete, he could do whatever he wanted. He found that everyone wanted a piece of "The Little Dragon" , including Italian producer Carlo Ponti.

Ponti offered Bruce a blank cheque if he would do a film with Sophia Loren, which would have made him the highest paid actor in the world. Despite lucrative deals, Bruce decided to form his own production company, "Concord Productions" , and displaying a large amount of loyalty, asked Chow to become his partner in his new business.

"The Way Of The Dragon" , which saw Bruce write, direct, star, choreograph and play instruments on the soundtrack, was the first "Golden Harvest / Concord" co-production. It broke all box-office records in Hong Kong. Chow was over the moon by now, with the sure knowledge that Bruce's films were wiping out competition from "Shaw Brothers". All was well between Lee and Chow, as their second co-production, "Game Of Death" got underway. But all this was about to change, America was coming to Raymond Chow...

All the contacts Bruce had made at "Warner Brothers" had finally paid off after his "Warrior" concept hadn't worked and a confidential memo stating he was "too oriental" to play the part in "Warrior" , or as it was re-titled "Kung Fu" . Because of the "now or never" nature of the Americans, the shooting of "Game Of Death" was temporarily halted, and "Enter The Dragon" began. Raymond Chow was now working with the Americans, with possibilities seeming endless. If he could develop strong ties with "Warner Brothers" , he would never have to worry about "Shaw Brothers" again. This was a way of using Bruce to make a name for himself overseas.

"Enter The Dragon" was a "Warner Brothers / Golden Harvest / Concord Productions" project. Chow began preparing pre-production publicity material which stated the film was a "Warner Brothers / Golden Harvest " production, completely missing out Bruce's company name from the credits. Chow then began giving interviews to the Hong Kong press, stating that Bruce was like a stupid child who owed all his success to Chow's fatherly advice. Chow said that he was the puppet master and Bruce was his senseless puppet. But these tactics backfired on Chow. "Warner Brothers" were only interested in Bruce and not Chow's "Golden Harvest" company, making Bruce feeling betrayed by his old .

Bruce planned to co-produce his next project "Little Phoenix" with "Shaw Brothers" , even as far as going to shoot a series of costume tests. But before Chow's star pupil could defect, Bruce died, leaving "Enter The Dragon" complete and "Game Of Death" sadly unfinished.

In an interview, Raymond Chow stated that he couldn't look at the "Game Of Death" footage for a long time because he was too upset. That's odd, considering that he sent a camera crew around to film his dead 'friend's' home for the cash-in documentary "Bruce Lee, The Man & The Legend". They also filmed plenty of footage of the grieving Lee family, the funeral services, Bruce's body and the 'brave' Mr. Chow escorting a grief-stricken Linda Lee to the airport. These cinematic grave-robbers even returned to film more shots of Bruce's house as the removal men stripped the place. In a matter of weeks, this 'tribute' to the late Bruce Lee was being shown in all the Hong Kong cinemas. Would you say that these were the actions of a man terribly upset by a friend's death? I think not. With 'friends' like these...

Raymond Chow still harbored hopes of breaking into the American scene, and "Game Of Death" with Bruce Lee's name was the key. Bruce's original script was thrown away with indecent haste, and replaced with a tacky American scenario that would hopefully convince the American that Chow could produce films just as bad as their own.

A cast of American has-beens were assembled to star in Mr. Chow's version of "Game Of Death". These included Gig Young, a notorious alcoholic who blew his brains out shortly after 'completion' (He's drunk in almost every scene in the film). Hugh O'Brien, with connections to organised crime, shot his girlfriend, then himself shortly after 'completion'. Dean Jagger, the fanatical right-wingist, once got a director fired because of his political sympathies, also died shortly after 'completion'. Then there's Colleen Camp, a Z-grade 'actress', with hardly no credits to her name, was given the main female role.

Raymond Chow hired Robert Clouse to be director just that he could put 'By the makers of Enter The Dragon' on the film's poster. The only thing Chow got right was hiring Samo Hung (choreographer) and Bob Wall. By that I mean they tried talking Chow out of letting Clouse direct the film. Bob Wall later said that "Game Of Death" was hindered by having the man he considered the worst action director of all time. I agree, because Bruce knew what he was doing on "Enter The Dragon" and I don't think Clouse did. The locker room fight between Bob Wall and the Bruce Lee double looked better than the rest of the fight (minus the last real Bruce footage at the end) is because Samo and Bob barred Clouse from the set for that fight.

Three Bruce Lee doubles were used in "Game Of Death". Chen Yao Po, for the non-combat scenes; The extremely ugly Kim Tai Chung, mishandles the fights; and Yuen Biao, who physical shortness contrasts badly with the string-bean appearances of the other 'actors'. To make the action scenes even worse is the awful caterwauling, which, far from sounding anything like Bruce's war-cries, seems to be straight out of a Tom and Jerry cartoon.

Bruce Lee's character in "Game Of Death" is called Billy Lo. Billy is a Kung Fu actor (an excuse to show scenes from Bruce's previous films) with a blonde American girlfriend. They are being pressured to sign exclusive managerial contracts with American organized criminals. Billy always seems to be lurking around dimly lit rooms, wearing those stupendously large sunglasses, which he never takes off. It's almost as if he doesn't want anyone to see his face. Curiouser and curiouser... The American mobsters, obviously on holiday in Hong Kong shoot Billy in the face (excuse for jumping scene at the end of "Fist Of Fury". Billy fakes his own death, and is given a fake funeral (cue for Clouse to stick in real footage from Bruce's funeral). Raymond Chow must be wiping away the crocodile tears when he saw these scenes of Bruce's funeral and corpse. Personally, I think that this material should never have been included in the film, it is a disgrace to the memory of Bruce Lee. Anyway, donning a false beard, Billy is free to exact his puny revenge against the mobsters and their henchmen. The girlfriend gets kidnapped and stuck in a special warehouse constructed out of balsa wood, cardboard and sugar glass. Billy arrives at the warehouse and is attacked by motorbiking American stuntmen wearing different coloured versions of the famous black and yellow catsuit. Could this be an excuse to get Billy into the catsuit? You got it. Billy then goes the bad guys' headquarters, situated up the stairs of a restaurant's dining room. This is where we finally get to see the genuine Bruce footage, Danny, Chi and Kareem. Then its back to the double for a fight with Hugh O'Brien, who fights like an pensioner in a pub brawl. Then we have the dummy of a near-senile Dean Jagger plunging from the roof to his death through some neon signs. Then we have Colleen Camp warbling her way through the song "Will this be the song I'll be singing tomorrow", while the credits show Bruce in some shots from his earlier films.

"Golden Harvest's", Raymond Chow wasted no time making "Game Of Death 2". Fans hoped to see more unseen footage of Bruce, but Chow was not going to let go of this ultra-valuable footage.

[Markgway]

You guys honestly think Raymond Chow had Bruce killed?

[venoms5]

A bit far fetched I guess to hear all this now. Who knows, really. A lot of Chinese do believe Lee was killed by the Mafia. I have some old martial arts movie magazines boxed up and there were articles about Lee supposedly being rubbed out by the mob and even a mention of him apparently being done in by being "touched" in a lethal pressure point. I do remember when the 1993 Bruce Lee movie, DRAGON was being made, the makers apparently had problems with gangsters warning them not to film the movie. Incidentally, some of that movie was shot at Shaw Brothers studio. Not long after, of course, Brandon Lee would die in a "freak" accident.

A nice article and interesting point of view, however, I don't think Lee was "wiping out competition from Shaw Brothers" considering the company was producing far more movies than Golden Harvest. Around this time was some of Shaw's most productive years churning out 40-50 movies a year. Regardless of how much money a couple of Lee's movies were making, Shaw's was still very successful and signs of trouble didn't really become apparent till the end of the 1970's when they began to cease being innovators and assumed the role of imitators. Who knows what would have happened had the man lived.

[The Dragon]

You guys honestly think Raymond Chow had Bruce killed?

:l!!

...A bit far fetched I guess to hear all this now. Who knows, really... I do remember when the 1993 Bruce Lee movie, DRAGON was being made, the makers apparently had problems with gangsters warning them not to film the movie. Incidentally, some of that movie was shot at Shaw Brothers studio. Not long after, of course, Brandon Lee would die in a "freak" accident.

:l!! :l!!!

[Markgway]

Raymond Chow is a manipulative businessman. He's not Don Corleone.

Would he film Bruce's funeral for a quick buck? Yes.

Would he have Bruce offed so he wouldn't make a movie for Shaw Bros? Come on!

Golden Harvest survived after Bruce's death just as they would've survived had he gone to Shaws.

Bruce was worth a lot more alive than dead and there's no reason to believe that Bruce wouldn't have continued to make movies with Concord.

[The Dragon]

Raymond Chow is a manipulative businessman. He's not Don Corleone.

Keep on thinking that, MGW. Run Run and his brothers were Dons as well. They groomed Chow.

Would he film Bruce's funeral for a quick buck? Yes.

You bet. and Sleep with Lo Wei's wife as well.

Would he have Bruce offed so he wouldn't make a movie for Shaw Bros? Come on!

Lo Wei was going to have JC murdered by contract for refusing to finish Fearless Hyena II. Lee was a far more valuable commodity than JC during his time.

Golden Harvest survived after Bruce's death just as they would've survived had he gone to Shaws.

Not totally true. Lee wanted to take the bulk of the HK stuntmen with him to America, cleaning house. His greater ambition was to be a producer, and have his own co. in America. Working for Shaws at a salary and production cost for a feature GH could not match, could have meant the end for Chow... Not to mention tremendous loss of face, being it was he who gave Bruce his "shot". Lee was Box Office Gold, like what The Dark Knight was this year, with each subsequent film. A Shaw production would have been bigger than ETD. Look at all the people here who chat about what if...?

Bruce was worth a lot more alive than dead and there's no reason to believe that Bruce wouldn't have continued to make movies with Concord.

Still not totally true. Because he was still relatively new, if he did go away, Chow had the rights to his films, and any marketing with him would benefit GH Studios. Always remember, Jimmy Wang Yu is the example here. Chow made a tremendous amount off Lee's titled film, GOD, 6yrs after death!!! Japan paid for distribution a few years before the production resumed! Lee became Chow's foundation, however, there's no telling how much he made off the exploitation market, and the Triads made even more.
Concord never even got credit on ETD, when it was a co-production between Lee and Chow with Warner's. That was Chow's shrewd business dealing. Linda would have received the royalties before selling all interests in Concord to Chow if the credit was there, setting her and the kids up, bigtime.

"....The more you learn, the easier it is not to retain."

[Drunken Cat]

The rumors I heard about Bruce's Shaw photos have to do with a script that turned into The Rebellious Reign. One of the script writers was supposed to be Chang Cheh, funny enough he was not set to direct. Run Run Shaw wanted Cheng Kang to helm the film. I find this strange because after 1966 Chang Cheh directed most, if not all of his screenplays.

There have been so many rumors about Bruce's next project(s), it's difficult to say what he would of done if he wouldn't of died in July of '73. With the rise to fame he got from Enter the Dragon, no one can even be certain that he would of finished Game of Death. All that can be said is that he would of got what he wanted, acceptance in the American market and a much broader audience for future films.

[Markgway]

Keep on thinking that, MGW. Run Run and his brothers were Dons as well. They groomed Chow.

Ha-Ha! I guess someone made Bruce an offer he couldn't refuse?

You bet. and Sleep with Lo Wei's wife as well.

Last time I checked adultery wasn't exclusive to gangsters.

Lo Wei was going to have JC murdered by contract for refusing to finish Fearless Hyena II. Lee was a far more valuable commodity than JC during his time.

It wasn't Lo Wei who wanted Jackie dead. It was his Triad backers. Lo was stuck in the middle. If Jackie left it was his head too. Wang Yu sorted it so that both Jackie and Lo came out of it unscathed. Whether the Triads would've actually gone as far as to kill Jackie I've no idea - these threats of violence are common place. The shooting of Jet Li's manager was one of the very rare times something nasty did happen. Triads are scum but it's not in their interest to kill the people who make them money. If Bruce had been murdered A LOT of people would've been very unhappy.

Not totally true. Lee wanted to take the bulk of the HK stuntmen with him to America, cleaning house.

Where did you hear that? It's news to me. All we know is that Bruce CONSIDERED making a film for Shaws. Everything else is speculation and paranoid fan fantasy

Still not totally true. Because he was still relatively new, if he did go away, Chow had the rights to his films, and any marketing with him would benefit GH Studios.

Chow had the rights to The Big Boss and Fist of Fury regardless if Bruce was alive or dead. The rights to Way would presumably have been negotiated over with Bruce selling them out to Chow - that's IF he decided to sever all ties. Game of Death was shot - as has been said - with Golden Harvest equipment and resources. Chow would've had claim to that footage also. Of course Bruce wanted to return to the US. That's no secret. But the idea that Chow would've killed him over it is wildly unfounded speculation.

Always remember, Jimmy Wang Yu is the example here.

Wang Yu couldn't work in HK because he was contracted long-term to Shaws. They could've taken him to court if he shot anything in HK. I believe part of the agreement to disolve was he make movies exclusively in Taiwan. How long for - I don't know? But Wang desperately wanted away so he may have agreed to anything.

Concord never even got credit on ETD, when it was a co-production between Lee and Chow with Warner's.

Yes it did. A Warner Bros-Concord Production. See the title sequence. In association with Raymond Chow (that was his producers credit - since he didn't work on the production). Bruce did but never took any producer credit. The Americans had those sewn up.

[The Dragon]

Look deeper, MGW... That's all I have to say. We can debate this and that but Chow is "involved" a great deal more than people know.

Last time I checked adultery wasn't exclusive to gangsters

Carrying on an affair with his top director's wife, and creating dissention between his first true star's marriage was just a couple of the things that pointed toward his sleaziness... Far many more.

Where did you hear that? It's news to me. All we know is that Bruce CONSIDERED making a film for Shaws. Everything else is speculation and paranoid fan fantasy

It had been stated by various stuntmen who worked for Lee on his projects that he wanted to take them to America with him. Read man! Phillip Ko, Sammo, Jackie, Yuen Biao, Yuen Wah, and Lam Ching Ying all have mentioned this information in various interviews. That is the bulk/soul of the stuntmen in HK at that time and outside of The Shaws. We're not talking about the various Taiwan talents that made their way to HK, shortly after Bruce's death. These men all went on to become groundbreakers, and Legends of the industry in their own right. Others gained opportunity because of the void left by Lee's demise.

Chow had the rights to The Big Boss and Fist of Fury regardless if Bruce was alive or dead. The rights to Way would presumably have been negotiated over with Bruce selling them out to Chow - that's IF he decided to sever all ties. Game of Death was shot - as has been said - with Golden Harvest equipment and resources. Chow would've had claim to that footage also. Of course Bruce wanted to return to the US. That's no secret.

Lee had no written contractual agreement with Chow over his "arrangement" regarding Concord. Linda found this out in probate court after her husband's death. In fact, Chow was under paying Lee for his efforts, and he was being paid in "installments" at a rate that he would have never received all of his proceeds with the way he was managing his finances. That's why the estate hates Chow so much to this day. Chow attemted to leave town right after Lee died... It's believed he was moving "assets" supposedly partnered with Lee. This was all settled 5yrs after Lee died. Raymond still came out on top, he was that smart.

Wang Yu couldn't work in HK because he was contracted long-term to Shaws. They could've taken him to court if he shot anything in HK. I believe part of the agreement to disolve was he make movies exclusively in Taiwan. How long for- I don't know? But Wang desperately wanted away so he may have agreed to anything.

Take him to court? That's not the HK way in circa 1970... How long? It meant, "you'll never work in this town again." -unless of course a blood-debt settlement is made. Wang would have loved to be in on a great deal of those productions happening in the mid-70's with all the independent film companies. There's no telling how much it cost him financially. He did have a tremendous following in Japan, even though he made all those anti-Japanese based films. You say you believe part of the agreement was to make films exclusively in Taiwan? I'm certain you'd take that as opposed to a pine box anyday right?

But the idea that Chow would've killed him over it is wildly unfounded speculation.

Lee needed to be laid waste for a number of business reasons. Revolutionizing the industry, and creating free agency was a huge one. Actors receiving benefits was another, wages, and so forth... not to mention his cockiness and intimidating his production staff, all the way down to the producer. Something had to be done. Make an example, by which all others will tow the line.

You obviously have no understanding of face, and The Triad oath, of which a great deal of decisions are made. We are not talking about American/Western culture or custom... You're talking about a very ancient and to this day still- a private culture, with customs we could not totally understand, with a western outlook.

Peace,

The Dragon whips his tail.

[Markgway]

Interesting post.... I still say it's paranoid fantasy though... If Bruce was murdered SOMEONE would have said something by now. You can't keep something like that secret forever. Bruce was a God in HK. If he was murdered there's no way it could've been kept under wraps for 35 years. You're points about disrespect and face are not unfounded... but I don't believe they led to Bruce's death... Of course I can't say for certain what happened I just don't believe the evidence supports the most extreme theories out there...

[The Dragon]

Interesting post....

All you need do is read the credible material available.

I still say it's paranoid fantasy though...

There's nothing paranoid or fantasy about underworld dealings-especially if you're based in another Country where you get 90% of most information second, if not third, hand.

If Bruce was murdered SOMEONE would have said something by now. You can't keep something like that secret forever.

You forgot my comment about towing the line. Once a prime example has been made, it wouldn't take much influence to get others to respect boundaries. Don't forget, everyone doesn't have the principles that drove Lee. He was an eccentric, totally dedicated to his own beliefs, and philosophies. He couldn't be bought. Very Principled man. It's not even an issue over there anymore. What's done is done. Just like Lee Harvey Oswald did not shoot JFK... That never stopped historians from teaching our children that's what happened. People now just go-"... oh yeah, the guy they said shot JFK..."

Bruce was a God in HK. If he was murdered there's no way it could've been kept under wraps for 35 years.

Was he? I thought just the latest, biggest, star. There were/are people who loathed the guy equally. He boasted, bragged, bullied, and embarrassed more than a few during that short time in HK. That doesn't earn you total popularity you know. If you ask me, Chow and Run Run are the Gods! They both are still around, and many of the ones who assisted their gains are not. Isn't that interesting? Shaw was once quoted regarding a certain popular star's in his studio suicide, " with fame and notoriety, people sometimes lose their balance (read focus), and here at Movietown, we offer as much assistance as possible to make the transition easier." Baloney! That was told to an American writer, researching a biography for Bruce Lee, back in "73. Spoken like a true DON.

You're points about disrespect and face are not unfounded... but I don't believe they led to Bruce's death... Of course I can't say for certain what happened I just don't believe the evidence supports the most extreme theories out there...

I've studied enough to know, there's a smoking gun that points in a certain direction, however, it really doesn't matter, I mean it's not going to change anything right? Jimmy Hoffa disappeared over 40yrs ago, and someone alive today, knows what happened to his body, but that doesn't mean they are ever going to tell us right?

People are thirsting for truth... The glass which you chose to serve them is tainted, dirty. Because they thirst, they'll drink. It doesn't mean they will be nurished, nor quenched. Because the glass of truth was tainted over 30yrs ago, the people still are not quenched.
:quiet:

[Raul4510]

Bottom line Bruce was murdered by greedy people who had more to gain if he died than if he lived and went back to the United States an international sensation!

[Killer Meteor]

Bottom line Bruce was murdered by greedy people who had more to gain if he died than if he lived and went back to the United States an international sensation!

Until it's proved otherwise, the facts are Death By Misadventure (the verdict, not the doc). To claim otherwise is slander

[gravedigger666]

Bruce was definitely death-touched or poisoned.How many a bit over 30ties you know have died natural death(with healthy lifestyle)?Bruce was in extremely good shape also....

[Killer Meteor]

Bruce was definitely death-touched or poisoned.How many a bit over 30ties you know have died natural death(with healthy lifestyle)?Bruce was in extremely good shape also....

Well, look at Heath Ledger. Sometimes a simple mistake in dosage is enough to kill someone, and that goes for legit drugs

[Raul4510]

Well, look at Heath Ledger. Sometimes a simple mistake in dosage is enough to kill someone, and that goes for legit drugs

agreed. Though there are many things about Bruce Lee's death that don't add up!

[ToothbrushFu]

Bruce was killed by aliens. They miniaturized a sabre-toothed tiger and sent it through a timewarp to get him. Although there is absolutely no evidence to support this it is FACT, not conjecture. Anyone who doubts this doesn't understand alien culture and the lengths they would go to to stop Bruce from conquering the universe.

[Markgway]

:D

[The Dragon]

Bruce was killed by aliens. They miniaturized a sabre-toothed tiger and sent it through a timewarp to get him. Although there is absolutely no evidence to support this it is FACT, not conjecture. Anyone who doubts this doesn't understand alien culture and the lengths they would go to to stop Bruce from conquering the universe.

Someone should stop your keyboard from ruining the forum thread universe.

:l

[Chinatown Kid]

Until there is concrete and factual evidence most people are not going to believe your theories Dragon so I wouldn't waist my time arguing about it. I respect your opinions and have a hard time believing myself that a single tablet of Equagesic caused his death when a few months prior he collasped with the same symptoms and he had not taken the drug. I can understand people thinking this is all paranoid conspiracy theories and to an extent some beliefs like him being given the death touch I can label this under as well but I do try to keep an open mind about things and believe it is possible that inept coroners/autopsyists could have come up with a misdiagnosis as to the actual cause of death. I'm also more inclined to believe that his death was caused accidently by a bad reaction to cannabis than Raymond intentionally trying to kill him, but it is possible triads could have got to it and laced it with something so who knows? After this amount of time though I don't think they will ever open the case again. I just hope Bruce is in a better place now in complete happiness and enlightenment.

[Raul4510]

What people don't seem to understand is that Raymond Chow is the one who gained the most from Bruce Lee's death. It is all so obvious!

[Killer Meteor]

What people don't seem to understand is that Raymond Chow is the one who gained the most from Bruce Lee's death. It is all so obvious!

How exactly? Did he stand to inherit Bruce's estate? A large life insurance policiy ala The Chinese Stuntman?

With Bruce dead, he can't come back to make films for Chow following a possible reconcilliation. Don't forget its was the Hui Brothers who kept GH going up to the late 70's, so the studio managed fine despite not having Bruce, dead or alive.

[Raul4510]

Everything with Chow is well documented.

[Killer Meteor]

Everything with Chow is well documented.

Tell me where I can find these articles then

[Raul4510]

Tell me where I can find these articles then

You are the one who keeps defending Mr.Chow so just do a web search
I'm sure you will find the articles.

[The Dragon]

Until there is concrete and factual evidence most people are not going to believe your theories Dragon so I wouldn't waist my time arguing about it.

It's not a waste of time to inform the uniformed my friend.

I respect your opinions and have a hard time believing myself that a single tablet of Equagesic caused his death when a few months prior he collasped with the same symptoms and he had not taken the drug.

The only common element here being CHOW, present, on both occasions.

I can understand people thinking this is all paranoid conspiracy theories and to an extent some beliefs like him being given the death touch I can label this under as well but I do try to keep an open mind about things and believe it is possible that inept coroners/autopsyists could have come up with a misdiagnosis as to the actual cause of death.

It's those superfluous theories that make a wash of the whole ordeal. They have no credence whatsoever. However, document can always be falsified. Wouldn't be the first time.

I'm also more inclined to believe that his death was caused accidently by a bad reaction to cannabis than Raymond intentionally trying to kill him, but it is possible triads could have got to it and laced it with something so who knows?

Raymond knows. People are more inclined to believe a huge lie moreso than a small one. That's a fact. Don't forget the huge life insurance policy GH took out on Lee that came into action on May 5, 1973. Lee's near fatal collapse was on May 10, 1973. :l!!?? Coincidence? probably not.

After this amount of time though I don't think they will ever open the case again. I just hope Bruce is in a better place now in complete happiness and enlightenment.

It won't be reopened. They murdered Brandon to insure themselves of that.

[Markgway]

Bugger the facts let's just hang Raymond Chow I say.

Round up the villagers...

Pitchforks and flaming torches at the ready.

[Markgway]

http://www.geocities.com/jimmy900_uk/bruceleerumours.htm

It was THE MAFIA!

No wait....

It was A JEALOUS HUSBAND

No wait...

It was CHAN WAI-MAN

No wait...

It was JAPANESE KARATE EXPERTS

No wait...

HE'S STILL ALIVE AND SHARING AN APARTMENT WITH ELVIS!

[Killer Meteor]

You are the one who keeps defending Mr.Chow so just do a web search
I'm sure you will find the articles.

I'm talking proper researched articles, not fanboy nonsense. Provide me with the links, or chapters if they are from books. Otherwise your argument is weak

And if you think Chow's sneaky, may I introduce you to Harry Cohn?

[Chinatown Kid]

[QUOTE

HE'S STILL ALIVE AND SHARING AN APARTMENT WITH ELVIS![/QUOTE]

How come I'm invisioning a great sitcom there? The name of the show would be The King in the Dragon's Den. :quiet:

[The Dragon]

http://www.geocities.com/jimmy900_uk/bruceleerumours.htm

It was THE MAFIA!

No wait....

It was A JEALOUS HUSBAND

No wait...

It was CHAN WAI-MAN

No wait...

It was JAPANESE KARATE EXPERTS

No wait...

HE'S STILL ALIVE AND SHARING AN APARTMENT WITH ELVIS!

None of that has anything to do with the point I'm making. In fact, it really contributes to more of what has you and others thinking the way you do....
Let's go back to 7/20/73, when it was first reported to the press Lee was dead. It was RC:mad: who stated Lee collasped at home while walking in his garden with his wife?! :l He later retracted that remark stating he was attempting to save Linda embarrassment! It was CHOW who reportedly drove with Lee to Betty Ting's flat. The dude's playing both sides against the middle!
************************************************** ********
Killer Meteor, there are countless books I have that give accounts of the last Months, weeks, days, and hours of Lee's life and they are too many to remember the chapters and so forth. However, two of the most recent readings are:
The Tao of Bruce Lee, by Davis Miller,
and...
Unsettled Matters:The Mysterious Life and Death of Bruce Lee, by Tom Bleecker.
These two books provide enough material where the reader, though informed of Lee's cannibis usage, is given enough facts that drugs were not the most significant problems He was dealing with at the time of his demise. Both are very good reads, and are not "fanboy" written material. Even though Miller says it was his first experience seeing Lee in ETD that changed his personal life, Lee's short comings as a human being helped put life in greater perspective.

[Killer Meteor]

None of that has anything to do with the point I'm making. In fact, it really contributes to more of what has you and others thinking the way you do....
Let's go back to 7/20/73, when it was first reported to the press Lee was dead. It was RC:mad: who stated Lee collasped at home while walking in his garden with his wife?! :l He later retracted that remark stating he was attempting to save Linda embarrassment! It was CHOW who reportedly drove with Lee to Betty Ting's flat. The dude's playing both sides against the middle!
************************************************** ********
Killer Meteor, there are countless books I have that give accounts of the last Months, weeks, days, and hours of Lee's life and they are too many to remember the chapters and so forth. However, two of the most recent readings are:
The Tao of Bruce Lee, by Davis Miller,
and...
Unsettled Matters:The Mysterious Life and Death of Bruce Lee, by Tom Bleecker.
These two books provide enough material where the reader, though informed of Lee's cannibis usage, is given enough facts that drugs were not the most significant problems He was dealing with at the time of his demise. Both are very good reads, and are not "fanboy" written material. Even though Miller says it was his first experience seeing Lee in ETD that changed his personal life, Lee's short comings as a human being helped put life in greater perspective.

I thought the Bleecker book was biased claptrap.

[Markgway]

It was RC:mad: who stated Lee collasped at home while walking in his garden with his wife?! :l He later retracted that remark stating he was attempting to save Linda embarrassment!

That seems entirely reasonable. The man had just died and Chow thought he could spare Linda the embarassment of the press finding out Bruce was having an affair (and may have been making love with Ting Pei when he died). That's hardly suspicious in my book.

It was CHOW who reportedly drove with Lee to Betty Ting's flat. The dude's playing both sides against the middle!

Chow wasn't in marriage guideance. Many friends do things that they might not approve of. It wasn't Chow's business. Of course he could've been trying to protect Bruce's rep as much as his wife's.

You're putting 2+2 together and coming up with 5. The events as recorded may not be exactly true (when is truth ever absolute?) but that doesn't spell M-U-R-D-E-R.

[The Dragon]

That seems entirely reasonable. The man had just died and Chow thought he could spare Linda the embarassment of the press finding out Bruce was having an affair (and may have been making love with Ting Pei when he died). That's hardly suspicious in my book.



Chow wasn't in marriage guideance. Many friends do things that they might not approve of. It wasn't Chow's business. Of course he could've been trying to protect Bruce's rep as much as his wife's.

You're putting 2+2 together and coming up with 5. The events as recorded may not be exactly true (when is truth ever absolute?) but that doesn't spell M-U-R-D-E-R.

Dude... Chow introduced Ting Pei to Lee for the simple notion of creating a little distraction to his professional, and private life. Linda was Bruce's sounding board on his career making decisions, and after he began to get more involved with Ting Pei, Linda was pushed aside. Chow began to take his advantage... Just as he created the heat between Lo Wei and Bruce. You cannot see this, you aren't really a follower on these matters. It's obvious. I ain't mad at ya.

[Markgway]

You say Bruce was very strong willed and then you say that Raymond Chow virtually pushed him into porking Ting Pei?

Make up your mind.

And why would you be mad at me? You've no more first hand experience of what happened than I do. I don't see this as anything personal. It's tragic what happened but it's not like I knew the man.

[The Dragon]

You say Bruce was very strong willed and then you say that Raymond Chow virtually pushed him into porking Ting Pei?

Make up your mind.

And why would you be mad at me? You've no more first hand experience of what happened than I do. I don't see this as anything personal. It's tragic what happened but it's not like I knew the man.

Did you not read my statement, I ain't mad at ya? We're having a discussion, here. No anger is with me. I enjoy the reciprocity in conversing, sharing, and exchanging points of view, as well as facts/speculation. :)

[Killer Meteor]

You say Bruce was very strong willed and then you say that Raymond Chow virtually pushed him into porking Ting Pei?

Make up your mind.

And why would you be mad at me? You've no more first hand experience of what happened than I do. I don't see this as anything personal. It's tragic what happened but it's not like I knew the man.

Betty Ting Pei...never understood the appeal.

Nora Miao on the other hand....

[Markgway]

Did you not read my statement, I ain't mad at ya? We're having a discussion, here. No anger is with me.

I know what you meant. But what I'm saying is why did you feel the need to qualify it? As though you might have been angry with me - but aren't. You have your opinion and I have mine - that's fair enough. Neither of us is absolutely right or wrong. Truth is we'll never know EXACTLY what happened.

And yeah, Miaow @ Miao. :kiss:

[jkl]

i share the same viewpoint as The Dragon on this subject, the whole equagesic reason for him passing away is bullshit, here's why the medication bruce was taking for his back pain was basically the same meds he took for his headache at betty's in hk !!.

shortly before Bruce passed away, Bruce hit or pushed Raymond Chow hard over a couch, Ngan Jai was there to witness this and Bruce told Robert Lee about it too. Bruce had many problems in HK and wanted out. Bruce was very paranoid about people putting something in his food and drink in the last three months of his life. Have you seen pictures of Bruce on the set of Enter holding a metal cup he drinks out of? One day, Ahna Capri saw a stuntman near Bruce's cup and Bruce freaked out screaming at the kid. The kid was fired. Bruce obviously had worries about something. It goes on and on.

before getting into the entertainment industry raymond chow worked for the taiwanese government as an equivalent to a CIA agent, or at least he had that status.

consider this that bruce was slowly being poisoned by someone who has access to you and what you eat, drink or wear. Sounds plausible to me. Lets just say that all his symptoms cover an exposure to chemicals found in pesticides.

think on this for a moment that bruce was being poisoned little by little and it was building up in his system. We have heard it many times in how someone close to an individual who passed away under strange circumstances was being actually poisoned in there food every day, making them sick, hence the weight loss over time, etc. Wives and husbands and even lovers, good friends, business partners are arrested for that kind of thing every day. Many of Bruce Lee's symptoms can be traced to certain chemicals found in plant killer.

when Bruce was first pronounced dead Linda asked Betty Ting Pei if she can back up the story that Bruce died at home. It was only after the fact that Linda had Bruce's stuntmen over and they had a banquet to celebrate the life of Bruce Lee. All the guys were saying how Bruce was murdered and then Linda got mad and told the stuntmen in a hysterical voice, if I do not want to know how he really died, then why should you, something like that. This can be backed up by Robert Lee, Peter Lee, Wu Ngan.

something else of interest is Nancy Kwan the actress had a friend who did the investigation into what happened to Bruce and he claims there was one shoe missing and the other could not be found in the apartment, which made some believe that Bruce was taken to her flat with one shoe. The shoe was never found.

according to Dr Peter Wu bruce's use of hashish was the only possible reason for his may 10th collapse and subsequently told bruce to stop using it, now consider this bruce was doing cannabis & or hashish in any form since the late 60’s and obviously knew his limitations. He was also eating hashish brownies, so he knew the outcome of that form of use aswell.
There has not been one professional doctor that is the head of any department here in the U.S. or European countries that claim Bruce’s death was related to any drugs relating to the ones mentioned above. That does not mean that any certain foreign substance / chemical could have been added to what Bruce ingested without his knowledge. People take drugs all the time that have been laced with another foreign substance that gives them a reaction and the end result is either death or bad reaction that leaves them in the hospital emergency room. Lets just remember that Bruce was only sick in Hong Kong and not here in the U.S.. He almost dies once and came here for a check up to the top doctor of neurology at UCLA, he happened to be Paul Heller’s doctor, the producer of ETD. They found no cause for Bruce’s almost passing a month previous when he was editing. I am sorry, but if you go into a coma and almost die and are very sick, and for a week can’t talk, or talk with a slur like you had a stroke, then when you come back to the States to be checked out by a top doctor and have numerous test and blood tests on top of that, and there is nothing found, then that means something is happening to you in the other place you live. If the cause of you passing out and almost passing away is serious then for sure they would have found something physically wrong with Bruce here at the top clinic located at UCLA at that time.

the reason(s) for wanting bruce lee dead ?

if Bruce was going to leave then someone must of felt that he was probably worth more dead than alive to them.
David Tadman interviewed two police officers who were on the force at that time and they say cover up for sure. Also, Sammo Hung, Jackie Chan, Yuen Wah and many others will tell you behind the scenes that foul play was about. Even George Lee will tell you in the last month before Bruce passed away, Bruce told him HK was getting bad and he had to leave as soon as he could.

Bruce ingested a poison and he reacted as such. Sweats, headache, vomiting, ending with the result of a congestive rectum and nasal airways, all points to poison, poisons like pesticides, etc. Back in the 70's pesticides were being used all the time on farms for vegetation and it would have been easy to get at high doses none diluted and poison someone slowly.

these are my notes taken from answers given by david tadman a few years ago.

[The Dragon]

Excellent, JKL. I couldn't have written it better. :)

Betty Ting Pei...never understood the appeal.

There were far many more lovelies than she. Especially over at The Shaws... Or was that off limits?

According to Davis Miller, and George Tan, word was Betty had a special sexual "talent" and Lee was gaining an education out of the deal. He wasn't the most experienced guy supposedly, and she was rather "worldly" in this dept. Both writers were supposed to reveal the sources in projected future publications, however, they never came to fruition. Better all the same I guess.

...anybody got Betty's address? :D

[Killer Meteor]

Excellent, JKL. I couldn't have written it better. :)



According to Davis Miller, and George Tan, word was Betty had a special sexual "talent" and Lee was gaining an education out of the deal. He wasn't the most experienced guy supposedly, and she was rather "worldly" in this dept. Both writers were supposed to reveal the sources in projected future publications, however, they never came to fruition. Better all the same I guess.

...anybody got Betty's address? :D

A man with a wife and two children isn't "experienced" enough? How much experience does a man need? Unless he has a limit of Klaus Kinski proportions

[The Dragon]

A man with a wife and two children isn't "experienced" enough? How much experience does a man need? Unless he has a limit of Klaus Kinski proportions

Well, yes he was cheating.... and before Linda, he wasn't very experienced, supposedly.:l

I am not supporting what he was doing, simply speaking about the happenings.

...and I'm still looking for Betty's address.
:p

[Chinatown Kid]

Damn if I was going to cheat on my wife she would have to be a helluva lot better looking woman than Ting Pei, someone like Nora Miao or Shih Szu yeah. Linda was no beauty but Bruce had gorgeous woman throwing theirselves at him. Sterling Silliphant claimed Bruce told him that he had got it on with two beautiful woman the night before after Silliphant had turned Bruce's invitation to go out with them. Bruce might have been more premiscuious than people know and Betty might not have been the only one. If the man had sired two children I don't see how much of more of an education she could have gave him unless your talking about she gave him oral or something he wasn't getting from Linda. Worst thing Bruce could have done was get mixed up with her(then again maybe that's what he liked about her), she had a reputation for being a whore and a dope head. Tom Bleeker claimed Bruce's steroid use activated his libido which before because of Bruce's undecended testcle, had been a non factor in his life. If Bruce was on steroids he looked mighty scrawny, the most he ever weighed was 145-150, in his last days he was in the 120's.

[The Dragon]

Under the 120's.

[Chinatown Kid]

Wow, the man was anorexic material then. That had to come from just not eating, I don't know where he got the energy for his fight scenes. It was sad seeing Bruce that frail, he looked his best in Big Boss and Fist of Fury. If he was poisoned maybe that's what effected his appetite?

[Markgway]

It's true he looked like a skeleton in the last scenes he shot for Enter (with Sammo).

If someone was being paid to poison Bruce then who better than Ting Pei? Not saying I believe it... just throwing that out there...

[Chinatown Kid]

The possibities are endless Mark so who knows, I sure don't lol. ;)

[jkl]

If someone was being paid to poison Bruce then who better than Ting Pei? Not saying I believe it... just throwing that out there...

how about the guy who bruce was getting his vitamins and other questionable drugs from....

[Chinatown Kid]

how about the guy who bruce was getting his vitamins and other questionable drugs from....

Are you talking about Bob Baker? Bleeker claimed Baker was Bruce's drug connection. He was in HK when Bruce died.

[masterofoneinchpunch]

Are you talking about Bob Baker? Bleeker claimed Baker was Bruce's drug connection. He was in HK when Bruce died.

TOM BLEECKER

Critical to the unfolding of Bruce’s life story is a man named Bobby Baker. Originally out of Stockton, California, Baker was cast as the Russian heavy in Fist of Fury. Prior to Baker’s appearance in Lee’s second film it would appear from all accounts that the two men were practically strangers. None of Bruce’s friends and students ever heard of Baker, and unlike appearances in Bruce’s subsequent films by known martial arts champions like Chuck Norris and Bob Wall, prior to his appearance in Fist of Fury, Baker was relatively unknown to the martial arts community.
The truth is that Lee’s employment of Baker had nothing to do with Baker’s acting ability or his martial arts skills. Although Baker did not appear in any of Bruce’s three subsequent films, according to Linda Lee, right up to the time of her husband’s death, Baker was the man responsible for bringing assorted drug contraband into Hong Kong to support Bruce’s habits. Curiously Baker was in Hong Kong in late July 1973 on the evening Bruce Lee died.

I don't quite agree with everything in this book, but it is certainly interesting.

[The Dragon]

Who introduced Baker to Lee?
:l

[masterofoneinchpunch]

Who introduced Baker to Lee?
:l

Baker has stated that it was James Yimm Lee.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJIzyJFF-d8&feature=related

[mantis FIST]

He should have worked with Shaw. Then his movies might just have been watchable.

Yeah, I said it. :)

Agreed!

[jkl]

sorry but i did not mean bob baker, bruce was getting his vitamins and other herbal delights from a herbalist in HK, i'm sure it's perfectly feasible for bruce's supplier to have given him tainted goods so to speak.

[The Dragon]

... bruce was getting his vitamins and other herbal delights from a herbalist in HK...

In that sense, it would be quite easy to slip him a mickey. One thing's certain, with his rapid weight loss, no one ever stated he stopped eating... so something was wrong with his system. A slow, poisonous, death? Very highly possible.
and as I said earlier, Chow was present both on May 5th and July 20th.

[Markgway]

Is it possible that he was anorexic and that this contributed to his ill health?

He was extremely thin by the end of the ETD shooting and had virtually no body fat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anorexia_nervosa

"Anorexia Nervosa is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes an eating disorder characterized by low body weight and body image distortion with an obsessive fear of gaining weight. Individuals with anorexia are known to commonly control body weight through the means of voluntary starvation, purging, vomiting, excessive exercise, or other weight control measures, such as diet pills or diuretic drugs. It primarily affects adolescent females, however approximately 10% of people with the diagnosis are male[1]. Anorexia nervosa is a complex condition, that eventually, in most cases leads to death, involving neurobiological, psychological, and sociological components.[2]"

"Changes in brain structure and function are early signs of the condition. Enlargement of the ventricles of the brain is thought to be associated with starvation, and is partially reversed when normal weight is regained.[5] Anorexia is also linked to reduced blood flow in the temporal lobes, although since this finding does not correlate with current weight, it is possible that it is a risk trait rather than an effect of starvation"

[oldeschool17]

Ahh yes.. It's bout that time of the year when we have a bruce lee thread end up becoming an expo of conspiracy theories.

[The Dragon]

Is it possible that he was anorexic and that this contributed to his ill health?

He was extremely thin by the end of the ETD shooting and had virtually no body fat.

Not really, he achieved the low body fat with diurectics. He was obsessive with those as well. Once he was shown by Joe Lewis the effects they have on producing streamlined appearance, Lee was hooked. He used them since the late '60's. However, whatever caused his weight loss, he didn't really need to continue with the supplements at that time because he was placing the body in danger, even crisis.

[Chinatown Kid]

I read a quote from Joe Lewis that Bruce's scrawny appearance came from just not eating. Joe said that Bruce desperately wanted to gain size at one time because he had skinny legs and a narrow chest and just had no muscle mass. He begin lifting weights and taking weight gain supplements and beefed up quite abit by the time Big Boss was made. From Way of the Dragon on he started to lose weight really fast so someting was killing his appetite and maybe overworking in the HK heat had something to do with it too. Grace Lee said around the time of ETD she saw Bruce and hardly recognized him because he had lost so much weight.

[Markgway]

Sometimes people just die unexpectedly.

In Scotland last year there was a football player about Bruce's age who just dropped dead on the pitch.

No history of ill health. No mysterious circumstances.

[The Dragon]

Sometimes people just die unexpectedly.

What we've discussed so far is not the same thing. :l

[jkl]

if you wish to continue to live in wonderland concerning this subject then that's upto to you, but your on the wrong path my friend

[jkl]

i have copies of the police reports and autopsy reports from the relevant doctors and nothing that you and anybody else says on this subject holds any validity the facts speak for themselves.

Bruce Lee's death smacks of foul play pure & simple

[Markgway]

What we've discussed so far is not the same thing. :l

You don't know what happened anymore than I do so all suggestions are valid as far as I'm concerned.

if you wish to continue to live in wonderland concerning this subject then that's upto to you, but your on the wrong path my friend

Sorry. Could you make your next post more condescending? I'm bit thick.

i have copies of the police reports and autopsy reports from the relevant doctors

Obsessed much? I'm not even gonna ask how or why?

and nothing that you and anybody else says on this subject holds any validity

So why bother posting here? Obviously you know everything that happened and are wasting your time informing us ignorant plebs.

the facts speak for themselves.

Yes. That's why no one was ever charged with any offence.

Bruce Lee's death smacks of foul play pure & simple

So simple in fact the HK Police never thought of it.

[oldeschool17]

This thread officially sucks.

[The Dragon]

This thread officially sucks.

without cowbell it does.

:)

[Chinatown Kid]

Hey I like that pic of Koko, that's a cute pup. ;)

[oldeschool17]

without cowbell it does.

:)
gotta pay homage to my new pup:nerd:

[The Dragon]

gotta pay homage to my new pup:nerd:

What pedigree is your pup?

[oldeschool17]

What pedigree is your pup?
She is an Akita at a little over 6 weeks old.

[The Dragon]

She is an Akita at a little over 6 weeks old.

Cool. and cute.