Bruce Lee vs Sonny Chiba

[shukocarl]

Both were masters of their own systems. Both were great movie stars. Both had good physiques and (what looked like) powerful techniques. Both were ''bad-asses". By examining the evidence, could we determine a winner from a supposed REAL fight?
Lee had his JKD(Wing Chun,Boxing, Grappling, Kicking):D which supposedly had everything to respond to any threat.
Chiba had Judo, Goju-ryu, Kykokushinkai (THE hardest Karate),
Shorinji Kempo and Ninjustsu.
Lee was 5'7" (140 lbs), Chiba (in his prime) 5' 9" and possibly heavier?
Lee had fast hands/feet, Chiba maybe not - in footwork at least.

Now the debate....who won?:D

[Squid Lips]

My guess would be Lee. Of all the martial arts stars of his day, there seems little doubt he was the most "obssesed" with real combat and training. I think he would have rocked most of the guys in his business. Chiba was well trained but all I know is if he fought Lee the way he fights on film, it wouldn't have last very long as that constipation style has its limits :)

[shukocarl]

Constipation style?

[UrbanKungFu]

No doubt much respect goes out to Chiba as I am probably one of his biggest fans. But if I where to describe a fight between Lee and Chiba I would probably compare them to 2 swordsmen, one using his sword (Lee) and the other (Chiba) using a two by four!

Lee was just too quick and sharp for Chiba.

Chiba was trained under Mas Oyama, his Karate was hard, brutal but a little too stiff and heavy.

Bruce's JKD is best described in Game of Death (bamboo rod scene) "This bamboo becomes a......sword"

Squid lips did you get McQueen?

Peace!

Hector Martinez

[Markgway]

Bruce would've ripped out Sonny's throat before he'd even had time to clear it.

[fabhui]

Bruce - Far superior skills in every department, except for gurning!!

[monk sante]

Bruce would've ripped out Sonny's throat before he'd even had time to clear it. :lol

That's a good one.

[Chinatown Kid]

Bruce was definately the superior onscreen martial artist. I've never seen footage of either one in a real fight but my money would be on Lee, Chiba's technique seemed crude while Lee's was alot more faster and fluid.

[GwaiLoMoFo]

Bruce was definately the superior onscreen martial artist.
I completely disagree....watch more Chiba flicks! Chiba had a much wider variety of skills. Lee was pretty one-dimensional. He was great at what he did, just the same style in every film. Then again Lee didnt have as many opportunities to display his skillset as Chiba has. Ill take Chiba onscreen anyday to Lee. Of course, as always, its a matter of personal preference. And in my book Chiba is the G.O.A.T.! He also seems to be one of the most humble screen legends of all time (of the interviews ive seen).

2nd Dan Blackbelt Judo
4th Dan Blackbelt Ninjutsu
1st Dan Blackbelt Kendo
4th Dan Blackbelt Shorinji Kenpo Karate (under Mas Oyama)
Kyokushin Karate- student of Choi-bae Dal (founder)
Trained for the 1964 Japanese Gymnastics Olympic team
Founder of the JAC

Chiba is the real deal. Ive never cared for these "who would win in a real fight" threads. But to look at the mans (Chiba) resume and say Lee would simply walk through him is ridiculous. You guys have been watching too many old school kung fu flicks. Where all the japanese characters are poorly played by chinese stuntmen with bad wigs!! :lol

[Mr Dragula]

I've always found these types of discussions a tad silly. Barring actual combat there's just no way to legitimately discern who would be the true victor, anything else is just meaningless speculation. Even then, depending on conditions the lesser of said combatants could always get lucky under optimal conditions.

In terms of who I find more entertaining, most certainly Chiba! It's true Lee never had the chance to accomplish all that Chiba has done over the years, yet I personally don't believe he would of had the range to pull it off even if he had.

[UrbanKungFu]

You know it's funny how Chiba is outrageously introduced to the viewing public in the trailer for the Streetfighter: "Terry Tsugury, 6 foot 6 of half breed fury!"

I met Chiba here in New York during his promotional tour for the Streefighter series on VHS and Laserdisc and he turned out to be about 5 foot eight!

I recall him being very humble in spirit and very generous in signing some memorabilia for me.

Sonny Chiba was part of the golden era of the 70's when all I thought about was going to the movies and spending time with my favorite martial arts film stars (Angela Mao, Lee, Chiba, Van Clief and the Shaw Brothers). I couldn't imagine the 70's without the Streefighter explosion!

Peace!

Hector Martinez

[fabhui]

I'm just looking at it from a fighters perspective and Chiba just does not have the same kind of fighting ability that Bruce had.
I'm not looking at and talking about the stuff Bruce was doing in his movies though, If you think that is what he was all about then you're WAAAYYYY off the mark.

While Chiba's background might look impressive to some people it won't mean bugger all to others - I'm part of the latter group.
I've known high ranking dan grades in various arts get wiped out by people who have never done a days training in their life but who could fight for REAL. I'm not going to mention names but one was a very high ranking Karateka that flew in from Japan to the UK several years ago.

I do quite like Chiba a fair bit as it goes and I'm in no way putting him down, I'm just voicing my opinion.

[UrbanKungFu]

I agree with Fabhui. I remember back in high school, there was this dude that talked all this crap about him being real good at "karate" and his "belt" achievements. All I did was learn my moves from the movies.

He wanted to spar with me and we met after school. The out come was that I punched and kicked him at will.

The trouble with this dude was that he emphasized too much and pre-meditated his moves.

All I did was what was natural for me to do....to kick his A##!

Bruce lived this philosophy and that's why he was so great (yes, great!)

Peace!

Hector Martinez

[stormybman]

The one thing people forget about when talking about Bruce, is the conditioning factor, in which during his era there was probably no one nearly as conditioned for fighting as he was.
Remember, people adopted his philosophies years later, after his death, and advanced in the ensuing years. He was 'always' ready to go... He once told Pierre Burton," you have to make this fist/your whole body into a weapon, and must train every part so that when you want to move, your reflexes are there..."!

8)

[VonHumboldtFleischer]

ruce - Far superior skills in every department, except for gurning!!

I'm sorry, but have you seen a Bruce Lee movie?

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/misterdeeds/stupidassface.gif

Feel free to add your own shrieking noises.

[fabhui]

I'm sorry, but have you seen a Bruce Lee movie?


I have indeed and while he is quite good at gurning Mr Sonny Chiba is in a league all of his own!

[Tosh]

I agree these "who would win" in a fight threads are a bit silly, but a little fun speculating...

I think Chiba's moves on film are as extreme as the expliotative genre at the time, it even seems they tried to out do that. I don't think Chiba or Lee would be making all those noises in a real fight:lol

I also agree it doesn't matter how many belts someone has, in Karate or Kung Fu.

Bruce was quicker and better conditioned, Sonny would of probably went inside try to lock bruce up turned it into a wrestling match. Who knows, maybe Hwang Jang Lee could of kicked both their asses...

There needs to be a game with all the big kung fu names, calculate each persons strengths and moves, I'd buy an xbox tomorrow if that was to happen. Next up, Ti Lung vs Yasuaki Kurata!

[kungfusamurai]

According to the beginning of Sonny Chiba's film 'The Bodyguard', where two guys are comparing Chiba and Bruce Lee's fighting styles to see who was better, it was Bruce Lee who was the best! :)

Well, if they ever did tangle, if it was empty handed combat, Bruce would win based on speed and power.

If it was combat involving weapons fighting, Chiba would win.

KFS

[UrbanKungFu]

Just finished watching "Karate Warriors" on the Grindhouse DVD label. All out 70's exploitation that only Chiba could pull off!

Chiba fans, get this flick. It is available as a double feature with "Dragon Princess" part of the double bill with the lovely Etsuko "Sue" Shiomi. Both films are widescreen and dubbed in english.

The "Bodyguard" and "Sister Streetfighter" are available as a double feature from Grindhouse as well. Both films are remastered and come with trailers.

Peace!

Hector Martinez

[monwobobbo]

i think that sonny would have put up a way better fight then many here have given him credit for. if you do watch alot of his films you'll see that sonny does use many styles including kung fu. as for being stiff well maybe if yuen woo ping (or another good HK choreographer) was doing the choreography he would have looked better. the japanese films don't really use much undercranking as well. i think that sonny could also take a punch or kick better than bruce, he seems really tough.

[VonHumboldtFleischer]

While Bruce was busy wanking around flexing his glutes and mangling aphorisms, Sonny Chiba would lash out and kick a large, perfectly round hole in Bruce's chest. Sonny would then unzip his mighty wongus and pee through the hole in a perfect golden arc while the sky filled with doves and the song of angels.

The End.

[stormybman]

The End.


In the words of many a Kung Fu flick...

"...But Still...."

[thundered mantis]

Now, Hwang Jang Lee vs Hwang Inn Sik. THAT would be a match I would have paid to see! :D

[Dion Brother]

Bruce is waaaay overrated. Chiba is the better screen performer. And didn't need Yuen Wah to perform his acrobatics. Ron Van Clief said it best on his dvd commentary: Bruce was great for his size and was a good martial artist, but he wasn't a great martial artist. Wow, four complete movies with repetitive, mostly one-sided fight scenes and you guys think the James Dean of Hong Kong is the best. Fooey! Must be Bruce Lee's washboard abs.

[Mantis FIST]

I have never understood the uhh love for bruce lee. I just dont get what was so special about him. I think all of his movies are so-so. So what is the big deal all you BL fanatics?

[Chinatown Kid]

Well if you can't see it yourself then there's no use in someone trying to explain it. Either your impressed with Bruce's skills and charisma or your not. I do like Sonny Chiba as well and think he's talented and he's definately got the martial arts credentials to back it up, but to me Bruce's skills just look better on film. Sonny might have had a wider array of skills, but what Bruce did know and do he did very well. I'm trying to see more of Chiba's films and I thought he really looked great with his fighting in the Karate films where he play Mas Oyama. Killing Machine is another favorite. I'm looking forward to seeing Karate Warriors which is on the way in the mail.

[vengeanceofhumanlanterns]

While Bruce was busy wanking around flexing his glutes and mangling aphorisms, Sonny Chiba would lash out and kick a large, perfectly round hole in Bruce's chest. Sonny would then unzip his mighty wongus and pee through the hole in a perfect golden arc while the sky filled with doves and the song of angels.

That's pretty funny.



"...But Still...."

"But still then..."

[Johnnie freeze]

I like Sonny Chiba flicks...mostly to laugh at. When I first saw "Street Fighter", I thought to myself that "If Bruce Lee were mentally deranged, or suffered from some Musculoskeletal disorder, this is what he'd look like".