Arsenio Hall destroyed MARTIAL LAW [Archive]

fillapillowg

07-15-2008, 03:54 AM

I was a huge fan of Sammo Hung's Kung Fu/detective show, MARTIAL LAW.
Tuned in every week. Although it was true Sammo's English was not exactly the best, he tried his damnedest and you could figure out what was going on in each episode. Then some moron production head at CBS decided to put that idiot Arsenio Hall on the show as his sidekick. Arsenio started doing all the dialogue, adding comedy, taking away valuable Sammo airtime, and (remember this pathetic thing) doing some fight scenes!!!
It wasn't long after this brilliant mistake that MARTIAL LAW was altogether taken off the air and cancelled! Sammo never returned to U.S. airwaves.

Did anyone make the effort to tape this series? Sadly, I didn't.

AlbertV

07-15-2008, 03:41 PM

I only taped the 2-part finale to the show. I was upset when Arsenio Hall joined the cast and they practically replaced everyone (Tammy Lauren, Louis Mandylor, Tom Wright) with the exception of Kelly Hu. The problem was that Carlton Cuse left the show I guess when he learned they were planning to retool his show into a TV version of Rush Hour. If they had kept the original formula as planned, I'm sure Martial Law would have had a more successful run.

Markgway

07-15-2008, 04:44 PM

Tammy Lauren left/was replaced after episode five, before Arsenio Hall made his first appearence. The 'Rush Hour' idea happened in the second season after Louis Mandylor and Tom Wright were axed. I have to say Arsenio never bothered me (unlike Chris Tucker) and I enjoyed both seasons. When the ratings dipped for season 2 CBS yanked it. No attempt was made to save it, just a cut to the throat. They even hurriedly replaced the actor playing the big bad villain. Sammo's personal mistake was retreating to HK after this ended. He should've looked for another series or feature, even as director. It took until SPL for anyone to notice him again.

Chinatown Kid

07-15-2008, 09:52 PM

I thought I saw this series available on vcd somewhere a while back, maybe yesasia or HKFlix?

Chinatown Kid

07-15-2008, 10:16 PM

On DVD or vcd?

Chinatown Kid

07-15-2008, 10:23 PM

Cool, your a smart fella for taping them. :)

Markgway

07-16-2008, 12:15 AM

Also Sammo played his role from Martial Law in one episode of the Early Edition.

I didn't know that.

There was also a crossover episode with Walker: Texas Ranger.

They only showed one half in the UK because the channel didn't have the rights to both shows.

gsk

07-16-2008, 12:49 AM

I enjoyed the first season even after they added Arsenio who was not needed. Sure the first season wasn't perfect but it was a fun Saturday night diversion that had really good fight scenes for TV and mostly likable characters. The second season was a huge steaming pile of crap! Even Sammo hated the 2nd season. The new producers, Lee Goldberg and William Rabkin, just ruined everything that was good about the show. Every character you liked was gone and were replaced with the awful Gretchen Eglof. The main villain was played by Tim Curry's voice. Why have the main villain be someone you never see when you're doing an action show!?! Why don't we just have an episode where Sammo shadow boxes! Plus every episode seemed to have been ripped off from a famous movie (they actually ripped off the plot from "C.H.O.M.P.S." in one episode!) and the worst part about the 2nd season was that the fight scenes sucked! You could tell that 2nd unit hacks were shooting most of the fights since Sammo was being doubled most of the time and they were way over edited. I would buy a first season DVD box set if it was ever released but all copies of season 2 should be destroyed as they are truly an embarrassment for everyone involved.

Bravery

07-16-2008, 01:06 AM

I remember Shannon Lee was on one of the earlier episodes.

I liked the show, and thought Arsenio was ok. I never understood why they actually cancelled the show, it did pretty good ratings, a lot of times better than Walker.

KUNG FU BOB

07-16-2008, 02:35 AM

I found the whole show for sale, but it was really steep. I think it was $150.00 or something nuts. It was fun, but geez! I just tried to look at it (saved the site in case I find a bag of money) but it seems to be under repair or something.

Lobo- I'd be interested in a trade for it though. If you want, please PM me.

Markgway

07-16-2008, 02:08 PM

Shannon Lee was in a first season episode where she plays the daughter of a harrassed restaurant owner (George Cheung).

SlothStyleKungFu

07-17-2008, 07:42 PM

Oh c'mon,.... Arsenio ruined Martial Law? Freakin' Sammo being as dull as a doorstop ruined it from the get go. I love the guy. I revere the ground his pudgy wonderfulness walks on (thats why I watched the abysmal show), but he was just never comfortable with Engrish, with the production, ya' know, seemingly everything. I think even he would admit it. Sammo as a cheesy action, US tv star just wasnt destined to be.

BaronK

07-17-2008, 09:19 PM

Actually, it was the second season producer. He used to show up all of the time at alt.a.m. and brag about the changes and what he was going to do and such. He un-did much of the appeal that the first season had and tanked it. The ratings then tanked and the show went bye. He never came around after that.

fillapillowg

07-18-2008, 03:07 AM

I still stand behind my statement. Sammo's acting was much in the manner of these three late actors: William Conrad (circa. 1971's CANNON) Alan Hale Jr. and Dan Blocker. Chubby leads who didn't let their size get in the way. Although they didn't have to deal with a second language crutch, they did all have action scenes and sweat on the small screen.

I only hope someone will issue a SAMMO HUNG action figure soon, my knick-knack shelf has an empty space.

Karlos

07-18-2008, 01:18 PM

The first season of Martial Law is awesome, it really is.

The 2nd season broke my heart!

There were sets of Martial Law on Ioffer.com at one point, but not sure if they're still up. My set was $75, but later sets popped up around the $50 mark.

I understand that two incidents really put the final nails in the coffin as to a 3rd season ever happening - Firstly, Sammo wanted his real-life son, Timmy, to play his on-screen son.

When he couldn't procure a working visa, Sammo was pissed.

Secondly, Sammo alledgedly punched Arsenio Hall!

I have no problem believing the first story, but the second...?

Anyone else ever hear this? True? False?

silver hermit

07-18-2008, 08:46 PM

sure blame the visible minority and let the real problem get off scott free(corporate greed) execs control all aspects of programing and lets face it 2 seasons is enough for them to make money off syndication. if the show was on fox it would have been a lot better me thinks

The Running Man

07-18-2008, 10:59 PM

Arsenio Hall did not ruin the show. He, unlike Chris Tucker, is a genuine comic talent and had real charm. And unlike the Chan and Tucker relationship, Sammo and Arsenio seemed to have a real chemistry.

It did piss me off that they did get rid of the majority of the stuff stuff in the second season, including Louis Mandylor who was a fantastic on screen fighter and was looking to be a great understudy like character for Sammo's.

But all was not crap in the second season like some people here are claiming. First of all, the theme song was WAAAAY better in the second season. The first season's theme was literally made up of the stereotypical "ching chong" generic Asian music theme that is heard in about every Western movie that goes to an Asian local. It was horrible. The second season's theme song was solid.

Also, the action was far more consistent in the second season than in the first. The first had the quality of action go up and down throughout the season. Some episode's had great action, some had crap whereas the second season was far more consistent in terms of the quality of the action scenes.

But I do have to blame on the fact that the show never seemed to take advantage of Sammo's capabilities as an actor. It was as if the producers and writers weren't sure of what to do with him so he was just playing mostly a stereotypical wise old Asian. Sammo's charm did come through every now and then, but considering what he was capable of, "Sammo Law" was not that interesting of a character.

It's interesting though that the show was a real hit when it came out and still has a following. I don't think it was a ratings issue as more of a behind the scenes thing on why it was axed. I have to agree with Markgway in the sense that Sammo really should have stayed in the U.S. since he was starting to become a name (I remember a radio Disc jockey in NY named him "Chubby Chan") and try to pursue other projects, maybe even straight drama like he always wanted.

gsk

07-18-2008, 11:29 PM

"Also, the action was far more consistent in the second season than in the first. The first had the quality of action literally go up and down throughout the season. Some episode's had great action, some had crap whereas the second season was far more consistent in terms of the quality of the action scenes."

I don't know if we were watching the same episodes the 2nd season because I hated the action in the 2nd season as it was over edited and they were doubling Sammo way too much. I much prefer the action from the first season because I more of a fan of Sammo than I am of Sammo's double.

"It's interesting though that the show was a real hit when it came out and still has a following. I don't think it was a ratings issue as more of a behind the scenes thing on why it was axed."

It had everything thing to do with the ratings. The first season it did really well and even broke into the top 20 a few times. The 2nd season the ratings started around the same place they were towards the end of the first season but they started dipping almost immediately once people saw how Bill Rabkin and Lee Goldberg ruined the show. I took great glee in picking up Variety every week and seeing the ratings go down because Rabkin & Goldberg needed to see that they ruined a perfectly good show and turned off a large portion of the shows fans. By the end of the 2nd season, Martial Law's ratings were less than half of what they were at their peak so it was most definitely canceled because of ratings.

The Running Man

07-19-2008, 12:30 AM

I don't know if we were watching the same episodes the 2nd season because I hated the action in the 2nd season as it was over edited and they were doubling Sammo way too much. I much prefer the action from the first season because I more of a fan of Sammo than I am of Sammo's double.

Sammo was doubled in the first season as well and I don't remember any over editing in the second season with the fight scenes. From what I remember, the second season's action was more consistently good than the first. I remember watching some episode's in the first season that were good and some that were embarrassingly bad. In fact, the two of the best fight scenes off the top of my head that I remember from the show were both from the second season (the one with Marc Dacascos and the one with the crazy kicker where he fights Sammo and he gets hit by a truck or something).

It had everything thing to do with the ratings.

It very well could be, but I am saying that I was told there were behind the scenes issues as well. Don't know what those were and it's been years since that time when I was told this but that's what I heard.

Markgway

07-19-2008, 02:06 AM

Networks "fix" succesful shows and keep on "fixing" them until they actually do need fixed at which point they dump them.

If a good show makes it, it's usually by accident.

gsk

07-19-2008, 05:39 AM

Sammo was doubled in the first season as well and I don't remember any over editing in the second season with the fight scenes. From what I remember, the second season's action was more consistently good than the first. I remember watching some episode's in the first season that were good and some that were embarrassingly bad. In fact, the two of the best fight scenes off the top of my head that I remember from the show were both from the second season (the one with Marc Dacascos and the one with the crazy kicker where he fights Sammo and he gets hit by a truck or something).

To me, the first season's action was far superior. Yes, Sammo was doubled every now & then but not to the extent that he was in the 2nd season. I remember one episode where Sammo & Arsenio were fighting some guys in a Museum or something similiar and you barely saw Sammo during the fight. If the fight was 4 minutes long then Sammo was in it 45 seconds and his double was in it for3 minutes and 15 seconds. I also remember me & my friend were really looking forward to the Mark Dacasco fight and we were both incredibly dissapointed in it. I feel one of the best action scenes from the show was in the first season. It was the episode that had Kevin James on it and it was the ending where the guy comes in wearing a bullet proof suit and and shooting everything up. It wasn't a straight up kung fu fight but it was well shot and really exciting which is something I can't say about anything I saw in the 2nd season. I remember asking my friend why the action in the 2nd season sucked and he said that they probably cut the budget of the show which meant less days to shoot and that's why Sammo was doubled so much because the 2nd unit was probably shooting most of the fights while Sammo was shooting other scenes.

It very well could be, but I am saying that I was told there were behind the scenes issues as well. Don't know what those were and it's been years since that time when I was told this but that's what I heard.

Yes, there was behind the scenes issues. Sammo hated doing the show the second season. Even Arsenio went on Jay Leno and badmouthed the 2nd season. But if the show didn't lose half it's audience in the 2nd season, it would have been renewed for a third season. Quality be damned as long as the ratings are there. Hell, Bruce Willis and Cybil Shepard hated each other and there was still 5 seasons of Moonlighting. The bottom line is, the show was canceled ONLY because of it's ratings. Nothing more & nothing less.

Here is a bit of Martial Law trivia, one the commentary track for Royal Tramp Bey Logan says that Stephen Chow was offered Martial Law before Sammo but turned it down because he didn't want to be tied down doing multiple seasons.

noodle

07-19-2008, 08:12 AM

i loved martial law and thought sammo did himself proud, but i could not hack those 2 muppets in the 1st series actually trying to do martial arts....atleast arsenio looked hilarious trying to do kung fu.

i thought the reason why they brought arsenio in was, probably because they researched who was really into the show.and came to the conclusion that black folks were a big percentage.

jackie chan teamed up with tucker and finally had a giant hit film in america...unlike his 1st attempt THE BIG BRAWL..lol. jet lee was in lethal weapon yet did not bring him the success he wanted in america....until he did romeo must die..bam he has crossed over. so teaming sammo up with arsenio was not such a bad idea.

you team a cool Chinese star up with a cool black star and it stands out and people remember it...like donnie yen vs the black guy in tiger cage 2....jet li vs mel gibson in lethal weapon ..lol....who remembers how that fight scene went......you probably guessed i'm black by now.

AlbertV

07-19-2008, 12:53 PM

I will say I did like one thing about Season 2: One of my favorite actors, Sung Kang, played a recurring role as Sammo's son, who was brainwashed by The One and took on Sammo himself.

Markgway

07-19-2008, 01:03 PM

I feel one of the best action scenes from the show was in the first season. It was the episode that had Kevin James on it and it was the ending where the guy comes in wearing a bullet proof suit and and shooting everything up. It wasn't a straight up kung fu fight but it was well shot and really exciting

That was one of the best episodes. It also introduced the idea of Sammo having a girlfriend and thus dispelled the Hollywood myth that Chinese men lack penises. Unfortunately that too got lost in season two.

BTW. How did Sammo survive falling out of a plane at the end of Season 1? They never mentioned villain Tzi Ma again(!)

Lethal Weapon 4 did a lot for Jet and remains his best Hollywood work to date. Seriously.

Chinatown Kid

07-19-2008, 01:41 PM

I thought Jet's fight scene against Mel Gibson and Danny Glover in LW4 was realistic and exciting, alot better than that fake wire looking crap in Romeo Must Die. Jet really had a sinister edge/presence playing the villain.

thehangman

07-19-2008, 02:50 PM

[QUOTE=gsk;61220]To me, the first season's action was far superior. Yes, Sammo was doubled every now & then but not to the extent that he was in the 2nd season. I remember one episode where Sammo & Arsenio were fighting some guys in a Museum or something similiar and you barely saw Sammo during the fight. If the fight was 4 minutes long then Sammo was in it 45 seconds and his double was in it for3 minutes and 15 seconds. I also remember me & my friend were really looking forward to the Mark Dacasco fight and we were both incredibly dissapointed in it. I feel one of the best action scenes from the show was in the first season. It was the episode that had Kevin James on it and it was the ending where the guy comes in wearing a bullet proof suit and and shooting everything up. It wasn't a straight up kung fu fight but it was well shot and really exciting which is something I can't say about anything I saw in the 2nd season. I remember asking my friend why the action in the 2nd season sucked and he said that they probably cut the budget of the show which meant less days to shoot and that's why Sammo was doubled so much because the 2nd unit was probably shooting most of the fights while Sammo was shooting other scenes.

That was the one with Bas Rutten in i think.

Bravery

07-19-2008, 06:20 PM

That was one of the best episodes. It also introduced the idea of Sammo having a girlfriend and thus dispelled the Hollywood myth that Chinese men lack penises. Unfortunately that too got lost in season two.

BTW. How did Sammo survive falling out of a plane at the end of Season 1? They never mentioned villain Tzi Ma again(!)

Lethal Weapon 4 did a lot for Jet and remains his best Hollywood work to date. Seriously.

What plane at the end of season 1? Thats what they did with the cliffhanger, they completely ignored it.

But, Ma fell on some rocks and Sammo into the water; they mentioned it in casual conversation in the first episode. Completely ignored the first season.

As for Sammo and Arsenio not liking each other, thats not true, they spoke highly about one another well after the show was cancelled. Sammo doesn't do that with people he doesn't like and neither does Arsenio.

AlbertV

07-20-2008, 12:27 AM

Actually, Tzi Ma was mentioned in the season 2 opener. When Sammo is strapped to a bomb by a lunatic, he asks him "Are you here to avenge Lee's death?"

thehangman

07-24-2008, 09:39 PM

Shame they didnt do a spin off film which they do with series sometimes.

dionbrother

07-25-2008, 02:16 AM

The ratings dropped at least 30% the second season. Second season plots were derivative, with Hanna Barbera style epilogues with everybody laughing at a dumb gag. The action was scaled back, with overly tight camerawork. The first season had some memorable action (Sammo vs. Oliver Gruner, the aforementioned Bas Rutten shooting spree), second season had nothing of note (the season premiere had Sammo stuck in a truck for the whole hour). Arsenio was added to cash in on RUSH HOUR's huge success, was obnoxious at first, then toned down to a more straightforward, likeable character for the really good prison episode. Second season was like the pod people took over...ugh. Lots of stuntcasting for the Trekkies as well. Killing the interracial romance was really tacky. You can burn the negatives of that second season for all I care. And I had quite a few online spats with Lee Goldberg about what they were doing to the show. So did Gay Serial Killer. Look them up on Alt. asian-movies where I was known under another byline. It'll tell you alot so we don't have to repeat it here.

blue_skies

08-05-2008, 07:37 PM

I really enjoyed martial law as well but would have to agree that the rush-hour affect killed the series. Arsenio Hall taking up more and more screen time killed the show for me. Admittedly sometimes he was funny but mostly he was annoying. In the episodes that I think he was best was amongst the final few season one episodes when they swapped partners and divided the time giving the co-stars a chance to shine. Still if I'm honest I preferred the show before AH made his first appearance. I also agree was embarrassing when he started "performing" in martial-arts sequences.

Somebody mentioned the new title sequence in season 2 and clearly that was far superior but when the rest of the show went downhill it hardly makes up for it. Also I don't know whose idea it was to bring in that female captain but she was The final nail in the coffin!

Lethal Weapon 4 did a lot for Jet and remains his best Hollywood work to date. Seriously.

Jet was great in the movie but it was just so disappointing seeing those two old farts kill him in the final moments... Although I did enjoy watching him kick the crap out of Mel Gibson.:D

David Rees

08-05-2008, 09:38 PM

Martial Law Season 1 did a great job of introducing Sammo to mainstream america but they could not leave a good thing alone and spoilt it with the changes to season 2, i wrote a long article on the series in an old issue of Impact a few years ago. Why this series is not available on dvd is amazing considering the awful tv shows that are released.
Sammo could do a great job in America as a choreographer or star if given the chance.

SAMMO MARTIAL LAW 10 X 8 PHOTO SET FOR SALE (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=4&campid=5335857173&toolid=10001&customid=MARTIAL+LAW&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.stores.ebay.com%2FShop4Ph otos_MARTIAL-LAW_W0QQfciZ6QQfclZ4QQfsnZShop4PhotosQQfsooZ1QQfso pZ1QQsaselZ74930785QQsofpZ0)

Karlos

08-06-2008, 10:23 AM

The $45 dollar Martial Law set on DVD is back up on ioffer.com, if anyone's interested.

David Rees

08-06-2008, 07:34 PM

Shame its a bootleg!..i have most of the shows on dvd recorded off tv.

www.shigusatoys.com

The Dragon

11-30-2008, 01:11 AM

... Secondly, Sammo alledgedly punched Arsenio Hall!

I only hope/pray he friggin' killed his a$$!

:l

AlbertV

11-30-2008, 01:54 AM

Here's an interesting question...when Martial Law was on back-to-back with Walker: Texas Ranger, is it only me or would it have been quite an interesting idea to have had Sammo appear on Walker, kind of like having Sammo vacation in Texas only to get involved in some sort of trouble and deciding to team up with Walker? Definitely a pipe dream I had when I saw both shows together on CBS.

For anyone who saw the compilation Everybody is Kung Fu Fighting, Jeff Centauri did a really good spoof of Sammo and for good reason. Jeff was actually one of Sammo's doubles on the show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOzck9KnpFs

kingofkungfu2002

11-30-2008, 12:05 PM

Here's an interesting question...when Martial Law was on back-to-back with Walker: Texas Ranger, is it only me or would it have been quite an interesting idea to have had Sammo appear on Walker, kind of like having Sammo vacation in Texas only to get involved in some sort of trouble and deciding to team up with Walker? Definitely a pipe dream I had when I saw both shows together on CBS.

They did make two cross-over episodes with Sammo appearing in 'Walker', and Chuck appearing in 'Martial Law' :D

http://www.kungfucinema.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=11&pictureid=101

AlbertV

11-30-2008, 01:45 PM

NOOOO!!!! How could I have missed that??? Damn me!!!!! Thanks KoKF :)

kingofkungfu2002

11-30-2008, 02:04 PM

No probs...Here's a clip from the Walker episode:

VKY158OWSTw

AlbertV

11-30-2008, 11:51 PM

Wicked clip!!! Awesome fight scene!!! Sammo and Norris! Who would have known...Nice!

Rebornman

12-17-2008, 04:33 AM

When this got cancelled there was an article online saying it was due to the expensive choreographed fight scenes that were running a tab of $1million per episode.

dionbrother

12-22-2008, 10:24 PM

They'd already cut the budgets for the second season, the ratings drop reflected it.

SimonMW

12-23-2008, 10:22 AM

One reason was that they had a new producer on board who completely wrecked things (Lee Goldberg?). I believe he also turned Diagnosis Murder from a light hearted slightly comedic show into something altogether totally depressing. Much like he did with Martial Law. Anyone who was on Usenet at the time would have had some interaction with him and will know the story.

Not sure how much to read into the cut in budgets thing. The first season was shot on S16 AFAIK while the second was 35mm. That would have been a dramatic increase in costs.

Markgway

12-23-2008, 11:35 AM

Just as well I never watched those shows for the choreography... lol

emacs

12-27-2008, 11:48 PM

i heard of the show but never watched a full episode. was the introduction Arsenio Hall an attempt to boost show ratings? if so, perhaps the programme was in trouble before he joined the cast.

littlefuzzy

03-16-2009, 04:38 PM

It really sucks that brainless network executives/producers get to monkey with something great, and turn it into rubbish.

I would buy Martial Law in a heartbeat, if they'd ever release a legitimate full set.

I recently watched the Margaret Cho series "All-American Girl," and it was full of monkeying... Margaret had to lose 20-40 pounds in just a few weeks before the pilot episode because "Asian women aren't fat", and she collapsed after completing that episode with kidney problems.

At one point, they told her she wasn't Asian enough, and brought in an Asian coach for her. Somewhere down the line, they said she was "TOO Asian!"

Finally, they completely removed her great family: The amazing Clyde Kusatsu, Jodi Long, B.D. Wong, etc., and they shoved her in a "Friends" style apartment with a bunch of white guys.

QueenBlast

04-07-2009, 07:35 AM

Arsenio Hall was Harmless. And he replaced the way more annoying Tammy Lauren.

Elemental Fist

04-07-2009, 11:09 PM

Arsenio Hall was toleratable in Season 1. Season 2 sucked due to a whole variety of issues.

massa_yoda

04-08-2009, 12:16 AM

Was season 2 shot in widescreen? I know the production values were better in general.

Markgway

04-08-2009, 05:58 AM

Margaret had to lose 20-40 pounds in just a few weeks before the pilot episode because "Asian women aren't fat"

The late Lydia Shum made a successful career out of it.

At one point, they told her she wasn't Asian enough, and brought in an Asian coach for her.

I suppose she could've taped her eyes back further or started muddling her consonants...

Somewhere down the line, they said she was "TOO Asian!"

Quick! Remove the eye tape!

Finally, they completely removed her great family: The amazing Clyde Kusatsu, Jodi Long, B.D. Wong, etc., and they shoved her in a "Friends" style apartment with a bunch of white guys.

Well, white guys do love Asian women...

Markgway

04-08-2009, 05:59 AM

i heard of the show but never watched a full episode. was the introduction Arsenio Hall an attempt to boost show ratings? if so, perhaps the programme was in trouble before he joined the cast.

Strangely, no. The show in its first season was doing well. Arsenio came in about half way thru when the ratings were still high.

jrcma

05-14-2009, 02:28 PM

i found full eps on youtubetvcwC-_1NLQ if this helps?

Fightingfist

06-05-2009, 10:40 AM

I use to watch this like years ago it was good.

dionbrother

06-05-2009, 05:22 PM

Season 2 had far cheaper production values and lousy fight scenes (tight shots with alot of doubles). On a forum, I directly stated to Lee Goldberg and William Rabkin that they were brought in to make a cheaper show, and they didn't deny it. It was their specialty.

drunkenmaster

06-05-2009, 06:45 PM

Season 2 got lazy. Most of the plotlines were direct rip offs of films. It was not just a case of Arsenio overkill. No wonder it never got a third one. I'd still love to see a legit DVD release of this because Sammo always gave his best.

Bobby

07-08-2009, 09:39 AM

I remember liking this show and being extemely pissed when it was cancelled.

kingofkungfu2002

08-06-2009, 01:54 PM

ahh....... sammo was the bomb in this.................. didnt chuck norris make a guest appearance once? who were some of the guests on the show? anyone remember,

Yeah there were a number of guest stars, such as Shannon Lee, Mark Dacascos, Olivier Gruner, Billy Blanks, Loren Avedon, Elaine Lui.

Fightingfist

08-07-2009, 08:11 PM

Martial law wasnt bad

AlbertV

08-10-2009, 02:11 AM

Well, for those who have not gotten Enter the Fat Dragon: The Life and Films of Sammo Hung, there is a very interesting interview with Andy Cheng, who was Sammo's double on the show. He said that once Arsenio Hall joined the show, it somewhat ruined the idea of the show because they were looking to have Sammo become a mentor to Louis Mandylor's character, like a martial arts teacher-student type relationship, but when Arsenio joined the cast (and it was somewhat inclined that Rush Hour's success caused the casting) and then they re-tooled season 2, Sammo wasn't happy with the result and that is why he hasn't done anything as much in Hollywood (aside from choreographing the catfight in A View from the Top and his cameo in Around the World in 80 Days).

So basically, I'm not saying as the thread said, Arsenio ruined the show. I blame the producers for destroying the show...I mean, hell even creator Carlton Cuse was disappointed and left the show after the first season, even though he was still listed as Executive producer and Creator, but he wasn't directly involved with anything with Season 2.

butcher wing

08-21-2009, 03:19 PM

up with hope down with Arsenio Hall. I liked that white guy with the Muay Thai skills, I have seen him in a magazine he practices an iron leg style on an iron dummy. hardcore.

KUNG FU BOB

08-21-2009, 04:37 PM

Well, for those who have not gotten Enter the Fat Dragon: The Life and Films of Sammo Hung...

Hey Albert, where did you get this Sammo doc? I've never even heard of it before, and I must see it. :nerd:

kingofkungfu2002

08-21-2009, 05:21 PM

Here's a link Bob (it's a book) :

http://www.hongkong-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=5925&os

KUNG FU BOB

08-21-2009, 11:04 PM

Here's a link Bob (it's a book) :

http://www.hongkong-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=5925&os

Thanks bro!

Aw shit! Damn this economic crisis... I'll have to wait on picking it up. Have you read this kingofkungfu2002?

Hey Albert- what did you think of this book? Is it worth picking up? I am a huge Sammo fan, but if it's one of those "cash-in" books like Jet Li's biography, filled with mistakes, I'll pass.

kingofkungfu2002

08-22-2009, 11:52 AM

Haven't read this either Bob, but I'm tempted too :nerd:

massa_yoda

07-18-2010, 11:43 PM

I just rewatched this entire series from beginning to end due to acquiring it from a retailer a few weeks ago. I don't think I ever saw this all the way through back during its original run. After watching it, I must say I'm glad I own it! Lots of fun fights. Season one had a great final 5 episodes too. Very involving. One thing that surprised me is how much I liked saeson 2 as well! I mean season one was obviously great, but season two deserves a little credit. The only thing it got wrong was not picking up the great cliffhanger. It was dealt with in three lines,"Ever since Capt. Winship retired and Louis transferred your unit has been a mess." "Are you here to avenge Lee Hei's death?" and "Sammo, you survived a fall from a helicopter into the Pacific, you can survive anything!"

the season premiere had Sammo stuck in a truck for the whole hour.

This is an exaggeration. Sammo had two good fights. One was quite humorous since the point of the episode was Sammo had to keep moving or he would explode. When he got one thug into a hold, he kept bouncing up and down. The thug looked at him in terror and confusion!

I really like the casting choices in season two. And yes I am a Star Trek fan too, so when half of DS9's cast guest starrred in various episodes, I was quite pleased. You also had Mark Sheppard (Leverage, BSG, Firefly), Bret Michaels, Neal McDonough, Sung Kang as Sammo's son, and Tim Curry as an inspired choice to play the recurring villian.

The fights weren't bad either. The two episodes Stanley Tong direted, the Yukuza episode and the Mark Dacascos episode, were great. Tong directed more episodes in season two than he did in season one (the pilot)! Also the episode with the crazy kicker in the opening was fantastic. I noticed the increase in stunt double work, but really not until the second half of the season. The final takedown of The One was epic. Not in the length or complexity of the fight, it was just a great set piece. And it did have an ending too. There was a little hint of a continuation just in case they got renewed again.

once Arsenio Hall joined the show, it somewhat ruined the idea of the show because they were looking to have Sammo become a mentor to Louis Mandylor's character, like a martial arts teacher-student type relationship

I noticed three incarnations of this show. The first was pre-Arsenio, with the Master/student relationship between Louis and Sammo. The second was post-Arsenio, with the Master/student relationship between Arsenio and Sammo. The third was season two. This Master/student relationship was between Amy Dylan and Sammo. This worked for me just as much as pre-Arsenio. Why? Because the dynamic of Sammo being her boss in the training room was more interesting. And you see her improve over the season, showing continuity. You see their relationship grow too. So much that Amy asks Sammo to give her away at her wedding by the end!

In conclusion, good show. Glad I own it and can show it to friends. I'm glad it lasted two seasons. I left it wanting more. Even my wife liked it!

dionbrother

07-19-2010, 01:14 AM

massa_yoda

07-19-2010, 02:18 AM

Sorry, don't remember any good fights from the second season. The Dacasco duel was shot in close-ups and without any memorable spots. Don't care about Star Trek, Kelly Hu was a snooty bitch, the show was on a much tighter budget, scripts were blatant ripoffs of shit movies like CON AIR and LETHAL WEAPON 3. Tim Curry doesn't inspire fear in anybody, they might as well have cast Charles Nelson-Reilly. You should never have a hero with physical prowess take on a benign, non-physically threatening villain. Ang Lee made the same mistake with his pompous HULK movie. The audience noticed because it dropped more than 30% in the ratings. Sammo and Arsenio badmouthed Goldberg and Rabkin in various outlets. The second season was cheap crap with lesser production values than ACAPULCO H.E.A.T. Never seen such sabotage on a tv series in my lifetime. And that Gretchen Elgof(sic), lord, what a non-talent.

Still, wouldn't mind a good dvd set of that first season. Those last five episodes(and the first two or three) were KILLER for a network series of that era.

I actually liked the season two set for the MCU. It felt more futuristic with the central computer area with the star trek sound effects in the background. The fights weren't bad. You see Sammo plenty during the fights, especially the first half of the year. You even get to see some 3-section staff action in the CON AIR rip-off episode. Trust me, I just finished watching a bunch in a row, it's still pretty fresh in my head. True, not always as epic as some first season episodes, but it aint the trainwreck I thought I'd be the way you all were describing it!

Agree about the last five episodes of season one. Amazing close! But I am glad it had a season two. And I have seen worse sabotage of a TV series before!

bearpower

07-19-2010, 02:24 AM

CBS is know for killing good shows that have a good fan base show like The Unit I've been a loyal fan from the beginning and know many people that can say the same thing just like Martial Laws even with Arsenio Hall( his unfunny ass) as his side kick. Now we got dry, boring, out-dated reality show this is why I stop watching the big 3 network.

dionbrother

07-19-2010, 06:02 AM

I actually liked the season two set for the MCU. It felt more futuristic with the central computer area with the star trek sound effects in the background. The fights weren't bad. You see Sammo plenty during the fights, especially the first half of the year. You even get to see some 3-section staff action in the CON AIR rip-off episode. Trust me, I just finished watching a bunch in a row, it's still pretty fresh in my head. True, not always as epic as some first season episodes, but it aint the trainwreck I thought I'd be the way you all were describing it!

If you watched these back when they were broadcast and saw the deterioration of a once-fun series, over the course of two years, and were telling the idiot story editors/producers what they were doing was wrong (and they boasted of a genuine ignorance of Hong Kong movies i.e. "Why do they mix comedy and action, it's so jarring"), you'd have a much different opinion. I wanted to see the series succeed and I knew what they were doing in the second season was killing it. And it did. Never saw the CON AIR ripoff, because I can't stand tv shows that blatantly plagiarize movies. I quit watching either after the Dacascos episode stunk up the joint or the WALKER crossover made me want my hour of life back. Goldberg and Rabkin went back to DIAGNOSIS MURDER or PET PSYCHIC or whatever those goddamn hacks write for a living and Sammo's American career was dead. Burn, Hollywood, Burn.

Markgway

07-19-2010, 03:58 PM

I enjoyed both seasons. I just took them for what they were. I can understand many not liking the formula and cast changes made between seasons. But I have to be honest and say it didn't bother me.

And Lethal Weapon 3 is not a shit movie.

dionbrother

07-19-2010, 11:04 PM

And Lethal Weapon 3 is not a shit movie.

If you liked seeing Riggs and Murtaugh devolve into a squabbling gay couple, then the third film is not crap. They had become such PC wimps that audiences were cheering for Jet Li to kill them in LW 4. They barely resembled the characters of the first two films.

niro

07-19-2010, 11:15 PM

Markgway

07-19-2010, 11:38 PM

If you liked seeing Riggs and Murtaugh devolve into a squabbling gay couple, then the third film is not crap. They had become such PC wimps that audiences were cheering for Jet Li to kill them in LW 4. They barely resembled the characters of the first two films.

LW3 is much more a buddy comedy without the darkest edge of its predecessors (it's also the least violent in the series) but I still thought it was fun. Not sure I would class their behaviour as PC though. They kill a lot of bad guys and destroy numerous buildings and vehicles. Agree that they went too far in LW4.

I actually thought it was BS that they managed to not only survive being in a fight with Jet but also kill him

Well, Gibson is supposed to be a "registered Lethal Weapon" (if you still believe that) and Glover is 6ft+ so it's not far-fetched that the two together could subdue a tiny Chinese bloke even if he does know Kung Fu. I thought the scene made Jet look like extremely tough so no complaint from me.

massa_yoda

07-20-2010, 12:04 AM

I quit watching either after the Dacascos episode stunk up the joint or the WALKER crossover made me want my hour of life back.

Those two are eleven episodes apart from each other! Pretty wide estimate. :tongue:

In all seriousness, I can understand your viewpoint. You were the one talking with those producers, so you were obviously closer to this than I ever was. I watched all the episodes without knowing much of this and I enjoyed them, like Markgway said, for what they were.

dionbrother

07-21-2010, 04:03 AM

LW3 is much more a buddy comedy without the darkest edge of its predecessors (it's also the least violent in the series) but I still thought it was fun. Not sure I would class their behaviour as PC though. They kill a lot of bad guys and destroy numerous buildings and vehicles. Agree that they went too far in LW4.

There's some dumb PC stuff in there than wouldn't be apparent to a non-US viewer (you're a Scot, right?), like a pointless slam at the NRA and there were some other things, but I honestly don't recall (haven't seen it since it was at the cinema). I didn't care for Jeffrey Boam taking the series in a comedic direction with his story (despite liking LW 2, I'd have preferred they filmed the Shane Black and Warren Murphy script instead of the Boam watered down rewrite). LW 3 felt more like a sitcom with shootouts and a Michael Kamen score, and it just isn't what I loved about the original (which was like a badass, R-rated Starsky & Hutch...or if you are in the UK, Bodie and Doyle).

i find Mel Gibson's phone conversations more entertaining than those sequels.

dionbrother

07-21-2010, 04:12 AM

Those two are eleven episodes apart from each other! Pretty wide estimate.

If they were, I don't recall. I did often miss the show in the second season and probably went out of my way to avoid it. I might have thought the Walker crossover would have been different. But they turned Sammo into a culture shocked Hop Sing cliche("Where is Walker's Oil Well?"), instead of the hipper and wiser than everybody thinks Sammo Law of Season one. Another idiotic character change was having Kelly Hu's Cheng Pei Pei disgusted by Sammo's perfectly normal Chinese cuisine choices. Hell, wasn't Chen supposed to be from the Mainland? Culturally ignorant writers strike again!

In all seriousness, I can understand your viewpoint. You were the one talking with those producers, so you were obviously closer to this than I ever was. I watched all the episodes without knowing much of this and I enjoyed them, like Markgway said, for what they were.

Sammo Hung is one of the great unsung cinematic talents of the 20th Century and has contributed so much to action cinema that he doesn't get a tenth of the respect he deserves. What Goldberg and Rabkin did to Sammo in the second season was the equivalent of putting Buster Keaton in a sitcom like DIFFERENT STROKES. I'd love to talk to someone like Carlton Cuse about what really happened behind the scenes.

Fang Shih-yu

07-21-2010, 04:24 AM

What Goldberg and Rabkin did to Sammo in the second season was the equivalent of putting Buster Keaton in a sitcom like DIFFERENT STROKES.I'd settle for Michael Keaton (as a hip nephew of Mr. Drummond) more than I would Buster, given the time frame (the guy passed on in the '60s), but I know what you mean!:wink: I'll even go further to say that even "Cousin Oliver" would've worked better on Martial Law than Arsenio!:tongue:

Markgway

07-21-2010, 11:04 AM

There's some dumb PC stuff in there than wouldn't be apparent to a non-US viewer (you're a Scot, right?), like a pointless slam at the NRA and there were some other things, but I honestly don't recall (haven't seen it since it was at the cinema).

Eh, e'm a Scot, a'richt. :tongue:

No such thing as a pointless slam at the NRA.

I didn't care for Jeffrey Boam taking the series in a comedic direction with his story (despite liking LW 2, I'd have preferred they filmed the Shane Black and Warren Murphy script instead of the Boam watered down rewrite).

I'd really like to read the original drafts by Black and Murphy.

LW 3 felt more like a sitcom with shootouts and a Michael Kamen score, and it just isn't what I loved about the original (which was like a badass, R-rated Starsky & Hutch...or if you are in the UK, Bodie and Doyle).

I understand where you're coming from... but they entertained me. At least the third one did. The fourth was badly written and saved largely by its action sequences.

i find Mel Gibson's phone conversations more entertaining than those sequels.

...and less PC! :crossedlips:

Markgway

07-21-2010, 11:07 AM

Another idiotic character change was having Kelly Hu's Cheng Pei Pei disgusted by Sammo's perfectly normal Chinese cuisine choices. Hell, wasn't Chen supposed to be from the Mainland? Culturally ignorant writers strike again!

That was in Season One, the episode where Shannon Lee runs a restaurant.

dionbrother

07-22-2010, 05:31 AM

No such thing as a pointless slam at the NRA.

In a movie series that exploits gun violence, it is pointless and hypocritical. Like BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE, it makes me want to join the NRA.

That was in Season One, the episode where Shannon Lee runs a restaurant.

Carlton Cuse must have been on the Nash Bridges set that week.

BlurayStation3

07-25-2010, 02:22 AM

I have all 44 episodes in avi format. I remember watching it on air back then and it was a pretty decent show.

Markgway

07-25-2010, 11:48 PM

:bigsmile:In a movie series that exploits gun violence, it is pointless and hypocritical. Like BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE, it makes me want to join the NRA.

Yeah, but it's gun violence BY COPS. Not gun violence by any inbred yahoo who can pull a trigger. Those are the BAD GUYS.

http://www.bartcop.com/nra-cho.jpg

dionbrother

07-26-2010, 12:32 AM

And those inbred yahoos/gangbangers/illegal cholos are not members of the NRA. NRA members are responsible gun-owners. Quit listening to Michael Moore and dumb leftwing movies. They do not represent gun ownership and street crime in America to any realistic degree. Most of the gun violence is high in US cities with the strictest gun laws (i.e. Washington DC) and a low population of rednecks.

Markgway

07-26-2010, 01:37 AM

There's no point going down this road because I strongly disagree with your viewpoint.

Let's move on.

dionbrother

07-26-2010, 02:22 AM

If I were to believe the movies, I would assume that Scotland was nothing but kilts, redheads, heroin addicts and the Loch Ness Monster. But I am skeptical enough to not believe that. I would suggest you do the same when watching our painful Hollywood exports.

Markgway

07-26-2010, 02:42 AM

If I were to believe the movies, I would assume that Scotland was nothing but kilts, redheads, heroin addicts and the Loch Ness Monster.

...and you'd be right!

:tongue:

You see sad gits wearing kilts for no good reason all the time, though it's still a tiny minority. Kilts were worn by highlanders. I'm in lowlands. I should not be faced with prats in kilts just because someone is getting married. Tradition, my arse.

Redheads are also a minority, though obviously we have more of them percentage wise than most countries. My hair is brown.

Heroin addicts, unfortunately, are very prevalent. I live in one of the worst cities in Europe - yes, the entire continent - for heroin use. It's not uncommon in the scummiest areas to find used syringes lying around, left out for the kiddies to play with. Ugh.

Surely you believe in Nessie?

I would suggest you do the same when watching our painful Hollywood exports.

Hey, I know Hollywood is fiction, but I also have my own opinions on guns and their ownership that don't come from TV and movies.

ShaOW!linDude

09-28-2010, 07:40 PM

I just found this thread. Wish I'd known about this before.

I cannot adequately express my dismay when this show was canceled. I liked both seasons for what they were and what they offered though they were unequally yoked together. I am more appreciative of the first season than the second but it had its moments, too.

I was livid that the 1st season cliffhanger was nothing more than a byline at the beginning of the 2nd season. That was flat out insulting to me.

I like the fact that almost every episode incorporated a known martial artist as a villain for Sammo to fight. Smart thinking.

The Arsenio thing? Meh.

Probably one of my favorite things about the show were the episodes(1st season) with the obnoxious self-defense instructor for the police department and Sammo humbly putting him in his place. Classic.

I have both seasons on VHS. I haven't been able to transfer them to DVD yet. I haven't watched them in years because my VCR is ancient and has developed an appetite for tapes. I don't want to risk losing these. But one day.......one day soon.......

saltysam

09-29-2010, 03:08 PM

In the absence of a dvd release for this series i'm currently recording it from the uk Bravo channel.Anyone know where i can get covers for the show??:smile:

AndyWayne84

01-28-2011, 08:58 PM

I wouldn't go far saying that Areseno hall killing the show it's not his fault it went downhill, the fault in that is those dumb Bastard Producers who were the cause of this ruinning the direction of the show turning it into a tv verison of Rush Hour. I liked some of the stuff on the show like Sammo vs Mark Dacascos which was the onscreen fight i remember seeing and enjoyed the most watching that show, the rest could'ev been better if hadn't done any silly stuff but i dont hate Areseno like i hate Chris Tucker who's so anoying that im shocked from this day Jackie dont just knock him out with a Crane fist. I didn't mind Kelly Hu or Louis Mandylor in the show in fact i was hoping in the first season they would'ev continued with the student/teacher realationship between Sammo and Louis, but no the Producer's decided to bring in Areseno to copy the sucess of Jackie Chan's most overated flim Rush Hour but still i enjoyed better than i enjoy most show like *coffs Crapville aka Smallville the most unmanly show on the CW.

AlbertV

02-01-2011, 11:05 PM

AndyWayne84

02-02-2011, 01:53 AM

I wouldn't blame Arsenio either....read an interview with Andy Cheng (one of thow's stunt doubles and assistant choreographers) and even he stated that Sammo was disappointed at how the producers opted to do the second season. What helped the 1st season was the student-teacher relationship between Sammo and Louis Mandylor. When they opted to change the show, the vet teaching the young gun angle was gone and it was now two vets...what were they gonna do?

Exactly. I get why people would blame Arsenio for the change of direction but truth is Rush Hour was a hit and the Producers wanted to cash in on it's sucess by copying the Chan/Tucker Formula by having the Hung/Hall duo to increase ratings, instead it left Louis with no point in even staying on since before that your right there was supposed to be a teacher /Student realationship between Hung and Mandylor till the change of the show ruined everything. Another thing that upset me was that Timmy Hung wasn't able to play Sammo's son on the show for some reason i forget why the case was. It would'ev been epic to see Sammo and Timmy in an episode together but no we get someone who has no Martial Arts skills using more doubles than Sammo and Kelly Hu.

AlbertV

07-26-2011, 08:27 PM

Exactly. I get why people would blame Arsenio for the change of direction but truth is Rush Hour was a hit and the Producers wanted to cash in on it's sucess by copying the Chan/Tucker Formula by having the Hung/Hall duo to increase ratings, instead it left Louis with no point in even staying on since before that your right there was supposed to be a teacher /Student realationship between Hung and Mandylor till the change of the show ruined everything. Another thing that upset me was that Timmy Hung wasn't able to play Sammo's son on the show for some reason i forget why the case was. It would'ev been epic to see Sammo and Timmy in an episode together but no we get someone who has no Martial Arts skills using more doubles than Sammo and Kelly Hu.

Yeah and you know who was that? It was Sung Kang, who later gained fame as "Han" in THE FAST AND THE FURIOUS: TOKYO DRIFT and FAST AND FURIOUS. He had a memorable death scene also in NINJA ASSASSIN (in the opening scene).