The Five Venoms (1978)

[CrazyFrog]

The Five Venoms (1978) review

No synopsis provided

Believe it or not, I had not watched this in its entirety until now. I knew it was one of the fundamentals of kung fu movie watching, but I had not gotten around to it. So the other day, I sat down and watched it.

To be honest, I found it entertaining but not great. It was more of a thriller/giallo style movie with some interesting elements of animal-styles kung fu thrown in. I liked it but I wanted it to be more over the top. I found the introduction to the five Venoms very cool and I wished there had been some more of this exposition in the movie. As it progressed, I enjoyed it as a police-style thriller and the intrigue was done well enough. But it did not make for an awesome movie, just a solid one.

Things I really liked were the morally ambivalent tone which kept me guessing about each persons intentions, although it was rather apparent after the last two-thirds of he movie who was doing what. The emphasis on intrigue and deception was actually not as off-putting as I feared, although another action scene would have been great to break up the long middle portion. And I loved the concept of the masked Venoms with their very specific skill sets. The Venoms are an impressive crew, no doubt.

Not too many things bugged me about this movie but nothing really elevated it beyond a good movie. It lays down the mythos for the Venoms but without some more personal investment or at least some more footage of these mysterious clanmembers, it is hard to get too excited about any of them. Though I liked the Lizard a lot and the Scorpion is pretty bad ass.

I guess I had slightly higher expectations watching this movie or I had expected something more, I don't know, crazy. But it is a very solid movie and I will try to see more Venom films. Is Crippled Avengers a more crazy film?

3 and a half out of five venoms

[oldeschool17]

The Five Venoms (1978) review

No synopsis provided

Believe it or not, I had not watched this in its entirety until now. I knew it was one of the fundamentals of kung fu movie watching, but I had not gotten around to it. So the other day, I sat down and watched it.

To be honest, I found it entertaining but not great. It was more of a thriller/giallo style movie with some interesting elements of animal-styles kung fu thrown in. I liked it but I wanted it to be more over the top. I found the introduction to the five Venoms very cool and I wished there had been some more of this exposition in the movie. As it progressed, I enjoyed it as a police-style thriller and the intrigue was done well enough. But it did not make for an awesome movie, just a solid one.

Things I really liked were the morally ambivalent tone which kept me guessing about each persons intentions, although it was rather apparent after the last two-thirds of he movie who was doing what. The emphasis on intrigue and deception was actually not as off-putting as I feared, although another action scene would have been great to break up the long middle portion. And I loved the concept of the masked Venoms with their very specific skill sets. The Venoms are an impressive crew, no doubt.

Not too many things bugged me about this movie but nothing really elevated it beyond a good movie. It lays down the mythos for the Venoms but without some more personal investment or at least some more footage of these mysterious clanmembers, it is hard to get too excited about any of them. Though I liked the Lizard a lot and the Scorpion is pretty bad ass.

I guess I had slightly higher expectations watching this movie or I had expected something more, I don't know, crazy. But it is a very solid movie and I will try to see more Venom films. Is Crippled Avengers a more crazy film?

3 and a half out of five venoms
Im bias cause i saw Crippled Avengers before I saw Five Venoms when I was a kid. Personally I like Crippled Avengers much more as there is more action and the way they overcome their handicaps to take revenge is great. Lo Meng/Kuo Chue/Chiang Sheng/Sun Chien do a great job working together to fight off Lu Feng, Wang Lung Wei, & Chen Kuan Tai. I can see why you wasn't as thrilled with Five Venom and I can agree with you to some extent but I'll always appreciate it as it was one of those movies I remember watching as a kid. It's a good mystery flick with very identifiable characters. My rating would fall between 3.75-4.00 out of 5.
As for Crippled Avengers= 5 out of 5

*makes me want to fire up crippled avengers right now to view.

[KUNG FU BOB]

I'm with you guys on FIVE VENOMS. I wanted more training in the chambers with the masks, and much more fighting.

CRIPPLED AVANGERS is ridiculous cool, and it's so entertaing. It's a must see. I also give it a 5 out of 5 for a Venom movie.

[venoms5]

I have no real problems with FIVE VENOMS as it's more of a martial suspense thriller first, kung fu movie second. If the fight scenes had been of the same caliber as the story, the film as a whole would have been near perfect. Even still, a vibrantly colorful cascade of torture and violence capped off with a brilliant storyline but middling to average fight choreography, IMO. It's still deserving of its classic status nonetheless.

[CrazyFrog]

There are some memorable scenes in this movie but it's not quite to classic status for me. It dabbles with some more hardcore violence elements and some quasi-supernatural aspects and I found myself wishing there had been more of that. I think another action set piece would have raised my opinion of this movie more.

I'm surprised Hollywood (or HK for that matter) hasn't tried to "remake" or "reimagine" this movie.

[venoms5]

There are some memorable scenes in this movie but it's not quite to classic status for me. It dabbles with some more hardcore violence elements and some quasi-supernatural aspects and I found myself wishing there had been more of that. I think another action set piece would have raised my opinion of this movie more.



But judging by the way this film plays out, kung fu was secondary to the plot, IMO. The "supernatural" element was just enough for me and was relegated to the main participants while everyone on the outside were possessing of either rudimentary, or no skills whatsoever creating super hero and super villain portrayals.

I enjoyed this one more for its suspense and thriller machinations in dispensing with a traditional kung fu story which was about to be all the rage. Chang created a dark, multicolored, nightmare-martial-mystery-kung fu-fantasy that, if the action had been more finely tuned, than a far better picture would have emerged but I understand why it's a classic and I understand why you feel the way you do about it, Crazy Frog.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

I didn't like the story in Five Venoms. I liked Crippled Avengers as an overall movie much more. The only problem I had with Crippled Avengers was I thought there was too much acrobatics in the fight with Lu Feng vs Chiang Sheng and Kuo Choi.

[venoms5]

I didn't like the story in Five Venoms. I liked Crippled Avengers as an overall movie much more. The only problem I had with Crippled Avengers was I thought there was too much acrobatics in the fight with Lu Feng vs Chiang Sheng and Kuo Choi.

Me, too, but CRIPPLED AVENGERS is a more traditional kung fu flick whereas FIVE VENOMS is not; at least not to me. Although I like the story in FIVE VENOMS very much especially with all it has to say about the law which resonates even today and also the evil of greed and power. Also, its heavier accent on torture devices and methods of disposal is different from a lot of these pictures and a nice balance with everything else if only the choreo was on par with the rest. I don't watch this one for the fights.

[CrazyFrog]

I liked the focus on the plot and intrigue. It was the center of the story. But with these Shaw Bros films, it feels so claustrophobic with the sets and not many characters beyond the main six Venoms, so it isn't particularly suspenseful. But it did play out in a restrained manner (minus the torture) that was nice to watch.

[venoms5]

If you didn't know who the venoms were before seeing the film, there is an air of mystery about the film and also just when and who is going to be murdered next. The best part for me is the section with Lo and Kuo when Lo is blamed for the crime and Kuo is sent away to avoid his interference. The resulting treachery and subsequent torture ensues. Also, I wondered if and when Kuo's character would return and whether Lo would survive the ordeal or not. I found this rather suspenseful at the time of first viewing it.

Personally, I love the Shaw sets as they recall old Hollywood productions. Also, Chang Cheh's movies were not the same from years prior. Since the big budget "super productions" were lacking in BO returns, smaller, more confined movies took there place (or are you just referring to Shaw films from this time period?) and more accent placed on the fight choreography which quickly took over by this point. I'll take a Shaw set over a plain, open field or gravel pit any day.

[CrazyFrog]

I'll agree that that "gravel pit" gets pretty old. And the sets from the mid-70's period Shaws could be inventive. I am not asking for stark realism but I just think it adds to the claustrophobic feeling I get watching these movies. In this case, I suppose this movie is like dramatic theater and the set enhances that feeling.

I wasn't saying it wasn't suspenseful, just kind of an average suspense like watching DTV thrillers. Good thrillers (to me) have nuances to them that make them worth re-watching even when you know what will happen. This is a cut or two above other kung fu movies that portray deceit and the like, but it wasn't galvanizing.

Dude, I don't know. It was a good movie but maybe I just am watching it too late in the game and it isn't as iconic to me as to you and others. I am sure if I watched Hawk the Slayer now vs. when I was nine, it would not seem as badass now as it seemed then. And I expected you to point out the virtues of this movie, after all, you're venoms5!

[venoms5]

I'll agree that that "gravel pit" gets pretty old. And the sets from the mid-70's period Shaws could be inventive. I am not asking for stark realism but I just think it adds to the claustrophobic feeling I get watching these movies. In this case, I suppose this movie is like dramatic theater and the set enhances that feeling.

I wasn't saying it wasn't suspenseful, just kind of an average suspense like watching DTV thrillers. Good thrillers (to me) have nuances to them that make them worth re-watching even when you know what will happen. This is a cut or two above other kung fu movies that portray deceit and the like, but it wasn't galvanizing.

Dude, I don't know. It was a good movie but maybe I just am watching it too late in the game and it isn't as iconic to me as to you and others. I am sure if I watched Hawk the Slayer now vs. when I was nine, it would not seem as badass now as it seemed then. And I expected you to point out the virtues of this movie, after all, you're venoms5!

I agree with you only on most things you said only I'm putting myself in the perspective of when the film came out compared with what else was seen around the same time. If I want to see a movie which focuses on style over substance, I'll look elsewhere but FIVE VENOMS brings something else to the table.

I read your post christening this thread and wanted to discuss the film with you or anyone else as there is little of that here or elsewhere; People actually discussing the films themselves--what they liked or disliked about the flick, and CrazyFrog, you come prepared!:p I seldom get the chance to do such things.

HAWK THE SLAYER...is that the one with Jack Palance? Haven't seen that in years. Doesn't he wear some kind of mask, too?

[CrazyFrog]

Yeah, he's in it. Can't remember a mask tho. It was like mash-up of LOTR and Xanadu, without the ELO.

The Five Venoms was a refreshing change from the usual- good master dies, bad guys inexplicably run everything, student goes for revenge, rinse, repeat. I tend to like the plots of wuxia films as they tend to have more meat to them as a whole vs. kung fu films. I was kind of actually hoping everyone (the Venoms) would be bad so you had to pick which shade of gray you liked best!

[venoms5]

Yeah, that would have been cool, but at least Chang Cheh kept things fresh throughout his career by not letting his audience know exactly who was going to live or die by films end. However, a minor stab wound usually foreshadowed certain death by the end titles. His movies almost foretell almost always foretell the hero's doom but he manages to throw a curve ball now and again.

[Cesare]

For me The Five Venoms is THE venom flick. Partly because it was the first one I saw...;-) Partly because it simply worked so well for me. (So well it got me hooked on fu films and wuxia...:-)) I saw it a year ago, at the age of 25 - so I guess you don't have to be 9 or 12 to really enjoy it.
The suspense, the overall dark tone and that tiny little shot of wuxia in it makes 5DV my personal Venom classic.
It manages to do something that for example Crippled Avengers or Magnificent Ruffians didn't do for me... I can imagine a whole damn comics series based on that film. Heck, I can imagine a 600-page novel. Not that the movie is that complex in itself, but there is that creative spark in it and a depth that most Venom flicks lack. From those Venom films I've seen so far, this one is probably the best in terms of making use of the background.
But of course, I'm speaking in relative terms - I'm not trying to suggest that 5DV is an art movie...;-)).
Oh yeah - and then there is definitely the best Venom role for Wei Pai, I shouldn't be forgetting about that...;-)

[The Dragon]

I think 5 Venoms works well because there's a balance here that usually separated a Kung Fu film from being a basher, or swordman film.
The main characters are fleshed out as typical swordsmen-like experts, however, at the core you have a teasing narration where the audience is kinda eavesdropping on the old master chatting with his last disciple.
From there it's simple the audience looking to see which warrior has which style, and how will he utilize it to kill?
There could have been more action, but I think we feel that way due to what we discovered the artists were capable of in subsequent films. We found through those films that each warrior was as baddass as Gordon Liu alone, Ti Lung, David Chiang together, and Jackie Chan.

[KUNG FU BOB]

I'm surprised Hollywood (or HK for that matter) hasn't tried to "remake" or "reimagine" this movie.

There is a Hong Kong remake in the works right now. I

Personally I'm curious, and will certainly check it out. But I fear that I'll be watching a bunch of pop stars swinging around on digitally removed wires. :mad:

However, it could be the next greatest thing ever if they did it right.

[doug maverick]

the reason i always put five venoms in my top five is because it was the first kung fu movie i saw that had a cohesive story line. it wasn't like all these chinese films that are so rusdhed they leave giant gaping plot holes in there stories. it didn't leave me wondering about anything. can't say that about the majority of kung fu movies mostly because like porns the story line is usually not that important.

[gravedigger666]

5 venoms is ace.It`s true there is not much fighting(what there is,is 1st class) but I love storyline and almost gothic kinda atmosphere.my favourite scene is when toad is beating snake in court.lo mengs best role definitely

[inframan]

I'd agree that CRIPPLED AVENGERS is a better movie than the original, also check out MASKED AVENGERS. It has a lot of elements of the original but I think it works a lot better.

[Daigoro]

Nice review Crazyfrog.
__________________
Thanks, i found your review a pleasure to read Mad, i like how U illustrated a backdrop of the history of when you were just
a kid and how you thought about it as an adult as well. Excellent work. I myself thought 5 Deadly venom's is overrated but the
English translation on the Celestial DVD is so horrible that it affects the overall possible outcome. The English DUBB that's
what made this film especially special and a true classic as well. It makes me think of how many other Shaw Brothers remast
-ers could have seemed just that much more illustrious. First of all let me not forget Mr. Crazyfrog after all this is his review
thread, thanks // i would highly recommend comparing the words in the English dub to the sub, when i started to watch
the remaster i was hey wait "what happened to the story". It seems to be lost entirely en-route due to rough translation(s).