Best Wing Chun on screen

[SimonMW]

With the release of Ip Man, lets have a summary of the good and the bad Wing Chun portrayals on screen.

IMHO the good (in no order):
- Prodigal Son
- Sammo vs Billy Chow and James Tien in Gambling Ghost.
- Sammo vs Mark Dacascos in Martial Law.
- Ti Lung vs Lau Kar Leung in DM2. This wasn't a stand out scene, and no mention was made of the style, but Ti Lung is clearly using only Wing Chun.
- Jackie Chan on the dummy in Rumble in the Bronx. Fast and brutal. I am STILL waiting for someone to choreograph Wing Chun in a fight situation with the same speed, power, and ferocity as Chan performs on the dummy in this film. Nobody has yet managed it. Chan injects a rhythm and fluididty of movement that nobody else can match. It is partly this rhythmic quality that made Jackie Chans classic fights a pleasure to watch, and is something that is missing from most modern films, even those made by Chan himself now. This is what I would like to see in a Wing Chun screen fight. The fluidity, power and rhythm of the Rumble in the Bronx sequence matched with the hyper reality of Donnie Yens new wave choreography. Think Donnie vs Wu Jing but with Wing Chun instead of a baton. Place the fight in a confined alleyway and it could be a classic. A modern, brutal take on the end of Martial Club?

IMHO the bad (in no order):
- Stranger From Shaolin. Wong Hang Sau's portrayal is very rigid. A limitation of the choreographic style of the times. Wing Chun is quite 'street' in its application and so benefits from more modern realistic choreography. Though maybe this should be in the 'good' section because it is Wong Hang Sau after all :)
- Warriors Two. Slow and rigid, although it can be forgiven because from what I hear this film never started life as a Wing Chun film. That came later when the production got into difficulty, which might explain why the end fight doesn't really contain any Wing Chun at all! Perhaps if Mike Leeder is reading he might be able to shed some light on this?
- Invincible Shaolin. Again, rigid and lacking power.
- Shaolin Temple. Ti Lung is restricted, much like many others, by the choreographic style of the day. Slow and rigid.

Props to all those who have tried though. Wing Chun is incredibly hard to choreograph and show on screen. Though not for the reasons that people think. Many reason that Wing Chun is difficult to show on screen because the movements are small and the style isn't flowery. This isn't really the case. It is one aspect, but not the whole reason. The reason why Wing Chun is so hard to show is down to a number of factors.

1. Many of the movements are so fast and quickfire in rapid succession that it is difficult for stuntmen to react convincingly.

2. Part of Wing Chun is simultaneous attack and defence. This makes it very hard in choreographic terms to show exchanges of any length between fighters. So many films that portray the style eschew this aspect of the style in favour of choreographing it like any other style with individual blocks. This is another reason why Wing Chun is much more suited to the new rapid fire style choreography that Donnie Yen has taken to in recent years. Wing Chun is much better when choreographed as if it is a Chinese form of western boxing with fluid, 'springy power' as opposed to the rigid way it has been portrayed on screen in the past.

3. The punches are hard to show power for the screen with unless the actor is experienced with it.

4. The choreographers are not familiar with the angling and footwork aspects of the style, so it can quite often end up with the fighters always face on to their opponents making things very 2D in nature.

Looking at the clips on YouTube of "Ip Man" it appears that the filmmakers have done a damn fine job and managed to overcome some aspects, but not others. Perhaps with the sequel the will be able to refine things and make it even better.

[David Rees]

Its interesting watching movies with Wing Chun as i studied the art myself.
Warriors Two is good in my opinion, especially the fight with leung kar yan and the thugs in the restaurant.
Dont forget some excellent trapping done by Bruce Lee in Fist Of Fury (against Bob Baker), Enter The Dragon (underground outside the lift), and Way of the Dragon (Chuck fight)...real speed and power!!

[SimonMW]

I have mixed feelings about Warriors Two. I used to love it, but now I'm not too sure.

What would have been astounding would have been if Lau Kar Leung himself had portrayed Wing Chun on screen, as he did for Hung Kuen in My Young Auntie and Lady is the Boss. Instead of previous films where they showed a very rigid looking motion, Lau Kar Leung injected speed and fluidity as only he could, and importantly a flexible waist, an aspect that stops many people from being able to show styles well on screen.

Lau Kar Leung, as I understand it, did not like Wing Chun, even though his mother was an expert in the style (AFAIK). Apparently she tried to get him to learn it from her rather than Hung Kuen from his father!

[Kaal]

just watched this movie yesterday for the second time. must say that the fighting is pretty good but i think that leung kar yan was pretty stiff at times when he was fighting in it.

[BaronK]

Never like W2. Does nothing for me. Wing Chun is one of those styles that shows good onscreen as practice and application, but not against other styles. Because of it's simplicity and lack of "width" in the style, it's one that many would not favor to use onscreen. It's something that is easier to incorporate into a fight, as opposed to using the style strictly.(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7NL8BBngz4 go to about 2:30) Personally, i don't think it's that hard. It's in the angles used. To film it correctly, you have to shoot it practice style. You can't "try" it when you're actually shooting because you're likely to get too much wrong. It's a blasting type style and needs to be shot and edited with a quickness and pop(Gambling Ghost). Ip Man's action was such a mess(to me). That first fight against the phoenix eye stylist in the house got it right visually but the rest, ugh.

Sammo 3 WC's were done in different times under differnt mentalities, so it's interesting to see.
PSon('82) during the kung fu era. Conceived and shot clean and rythmic.
Gambling Ghost('90s) during the kickboxing era. Harder onscreen style, still rythmic and "cooperative". Shot with more cuts but the visual power has been increased(much due to Sammo as a performer).
Ip Man('08) not done in the cooperative, rythmic exchanges of the opera style used in kf and kickboxing eras. Messy in choreography and camera work/editing(same with Sammo's work on 3 Kingdoms: Resurrection of the Dragon).

Sammo spent a lot of time on WC in his WC movies, then threw it all out in his finales(both W2 and PS).

I think it depends on how you want to use the style onscreen. Incorporation into particular sequence/takes or as a pure style for the length of a fight or movie. Incorporation is easiest. Ti lung is Shanghai 13, Sammo in GGhost and Martial Law.

[emacs]

i agree that Prodigal Son is quite good

[SimonMW]

It's a blasting type style and needs to be shot and edited with a quickness and pop(Gambling Ghost).

That is one of the things that is a misconception, generally brought about by Leung Ting's VT methods. Techniques like 'chain punches' are not actually a part and parcel of Wing Chun. The chain punch thing seems to have come from practitioners misunderstanding of linking techniques. But because a lot of people concentrate on that stuff rather than the other parts of the style such as the joint manipulation, trips, kicks, and angling it always looks very linear on screen.

I agree that it doesn't always work well on screen against other styles because of its compactness. Though I disagree that it should only merely be incorporated. I think that Wing Chun works better in a modern setting because its ferocity and speed is suited to Bourne Supremacy style fight situations. There is a very strong boxing correlation with Wing Chun, and this is something they have yet to exploit instead of portraying it as a classical 'quaint' style.

[The Running Man]

Wow. I'm surprised that I am not the only one not impressed with Warriors Two. I thought it was the only one. Personally I think Prodigal Son is leagues above Warriors Two and could never understand why it would be mentioned in the same breath as Prodigal Son.

In any case, even if the movies were centered around Wing Chun Sammo has always been throwing Wing Chun around in his action scenes during the 80s. Either it would be in good chunks of a fight scene or some glimpses here and there.

SimonMW, you would like Ip Man's fight scenes. There are many moments that showcase the kinds of stuff you saw in Jackie Chan's moment in Rumble in the Bronx only with actual opponents. Too bad the movie as a whole is not great in my opinion.

By the way, I know you used as an example but you don't actually think the Bourne films (especially the Paul Greengrass sequels) have good action in them do you?

[Charuto]

When you say action, do you mean fights only, or do car chases, gun stuff, etc. count?

[doug maverick]

bangkok dangerous, had wing chun in it. why idk, but nic cage looked like he knew what he was doing. he even did the look away thing that some wing chun guys do during chi sao.

[Jstn]

I thought Prodigal Son was excellent. I'm not sure how closely it followed the specific techniques of Wing Chun (being that was not the style I practiced), but I love the choreography in it.

[xianzai]

Just FYI,

I noticed actress/singer Josie Ho Chiu-Yi (http://www.lovehkfilm.com/people/ho_josie.htm) practicing Wing Chun in some footage on the DVD included with her latest album. I can't remember seeing her fight hand-to-hand, but I haven't seen all her films.

[doug maverick]

prodigal son is the best example of wing chun kung fu on screen period.

[FrankBolte]

prodigal son is the best example of wing chun kung fu on screen period.


signedXD

[xianzai]

I have a couple questions about Stranger from Shaolin:

1) Was it a Shaw Brothers film?

2) Is this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry1mYllwWY4) from the film? If so, which DVD release is it from? The only one I've been able to find is in English and doesn't look to have great video quality.

[thekfc]

I would throw in "The Descendant of Wing Chun".

[David Rees]

The problem with Descendant is the frame cuts in the fights to speed the action up, makes it look jerky....:S

[SimonMW]

prodigal son is the best example of wing chun kung fu on screen period.

The Prodigal Son is fantastic. Although I always stop the DVD before the end fight because I think it is meh. That fight totally ruins it for me. Biao just starts doing karate. Wing Chun is fluid, flowing, springy, and close range. If they had kept the end fight to the same theme as the other fights and placed it in a more confined space it would have been the best kung fu film ever made.

From what I have seen on YouTube "Ip Man" shows pretty much applied practical Wing Chun. Most of it looks like it has been taken from a Ip Man Wing Chun text book. Mainland versions such as Yuen Kay San and Pin Sun are different. But as a portrayal of Ip Man Wing Chun Donnie has stayed pretty much to idealised textbook application in many respects.

Descendant of Wing Chun is just a spoof and contains awful Wing Chun!

[Chinatown Kid]

Is Decendents of Wing Chun the one with Melvin Wong? I didn't like the fights in that film if that's the one, I heard that film originally starred the famous Wing Chun teacher William Cheung but he was replaced by Melvin because he couldn't quite catch the hang of screen fighting. Imo Bruce fights with Bob Baker and Chuck Norris had some of the most realitic looking fight applications using Wing Chun although it was just used in brief moments of the screen fights. Ti Lung's WC in Shaolin Temple was not the most fluid but I thought his fight with Wang Lung Wei looked pretty good and practical because he was fighting Wang at close quarters and in a confined space on the stairwell ladder and was trapping and striking his opponent pretty good.

[Bruce]

IMHO Bruce Lee's wing chun skills (modified, maybe even incomplete though they may've been) looked more believeable & convincing, onscreen or off, than anyone else's that I've seen. I look at clips of that Boztepe guy & Leung Ting on youtube & they look like they're making a conscious effort to look as badass as Bruce did. As far as WC in movies is concerned I'd put Sammo Hung in 2nd place for best wing chun efforts.

[vismistananda]

So far Prodigal Son is the best WC portrayal I've ever seen, specially the training scenes. Although it lacks with a more complex coreography, it shows how complex WC is in movements and forms.

I also want to count Donnie Yen's Ip Man, although he can't really portrayed Sifu Ip Man perfectly, Donnie has dilevered some of his style base in WC.

I somehow remember some of Donnie's film mimicked their moves. :D

[BaronK]

Here's Some.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbGWVCMaM5s&feature=channel_page

[The Dragon]

We need more Wing Chun examples.
I thought Beardy's "cross fist boxing" in The Victim was derived from Wing Chun... He looked much better performing there than in Warrior's Two.
Btw... He was still brilliant in that.

[mantis FIST]

I'm watching a great movie,right now, with good Wing Chun in it. Warriors Two!!!

But still He's protecting Chen Hua!

[SimonMW]

Hmm, Warriors Two doesn't really have anything decent Wing Chun wise. It didn't even start production as a Wing Chun movie from what I hear. The end fight in particular doesn't have anything resembling Wing Chun!

Hey BaronK, I've not heard of that film before! Is it available on DVD anywhere? And does Lam Ching Ying appear throughout the movie doing Wing Chun like that or is that the only sequence?

[BaronK]

Saw the clip posted on another board. It applied here, so I posted it. This is what I found on the movie as I've never seen more than the clip.

http://www.hkcinemagic.com/en/movie.asp?id=1819

http://www.taiseng.com/detail.cfm?varItemId=1138

[ironfistedmonk]

Warriors Two is classic, I don't care how authentic the styles used are as long as they are creative and this one ticks all the boxes. Prodigal Son is let down by the end fight which isn't as good as those proceeding it whereas W2 has a proper balls to the wall end fight, one of the greatest IMO. Both films are great overall.

Stranger From Shaolin is another good movie, again I don't know how authentic the Wing Chun used in it is but I don't care. Lu Chun Ku gives Huang Hsing Hsiu a starring fighting role and she does really well, I like this movie a lot.

[The Running Man]

Hmm, Warriors Two doesn't really have anything decent Wing Chun wise. It didn't even start production as a Wing Chun movie from what I hear.

Is that true? How can a movie about Leung Chang start production not being about Wing Chun?

[SimonMW]

I can't remember the details off hand but I recall it being mentioned that it didn't start life as a film about Leung Jan. I think Sammo only came on board later and rescued it. I could be wrong but if mike reads this perhaps he could set the record straight.