The Slaughter of dogs and cats for food

[Daigoro]

This is a serious discussion i would like to warn you it is not for the sensitive type from the start. Thank you.

First of happy easter. Today is a day when people usually celebrate in some form or another, usually a special moment to have a
toast or share it with the kids, the rest of the family included. I was thinking today about something else and it does not necessarily
have to do with Rabbits or the Easter Bunny. It has to do with something that came to my attention. In my opinion that has to do
with humanity and whether people truly have morals or just use the name of God and front as if they were being truly considerate.

Generally it seems people are just nice enough to appear straight laced. In other words because of the way life is, can easily try
and feign being nice all while trying to get away with something demoralizing. Next to cold blooded intentional murder i cannot
think of a gentle way to put this because there seems to be none still, why would Vietnamese people think it's ok to eat Cats' and
dogs. Help me understand. Biblically, even throughout history people have always eaten even sacrificed Cattle or Pigs. Although
i have decided to stop eating beef entirely (for the last 5 months) i understand the convenience of people eating beef. In America
it's common place, almost way of life. Fish and Turkey or Chicken are good and they serve a purpose that is needed without question.

I understand why people would do things or feel they have to rob even steal to get what they need, life is so hard that it seems at
times there is no other way but how could a person who says he is human, has beliefs and wishes upon GODS stars, wishes and
supposedly believes in freedom willingly and Unremorsefully take great tasty pleasure in eating Cat's or Dogs. To me something
is missing here and it's not only Canines or Felines. Where is true compassion? I love animals, i probably do more so than a lot
of people, i feed the strays when they are just Kittens, even when they get older and everyone else who used to feed them suddenly
dissappears. Ive even been bitten by a cat i tried to grab because he looked sick and almost got rabies. That Cat was Quarantined
and actually died while in the 7 day rabies shed period (look it up youll understand then), so you can imagine how that went.

I did not get rabies, God was looking out for me he knew what i was trying to do and have always done. Sure i will admit i even
have plans to take the female kittens i feed almost every night to get spayed so we don't have an ''outbreak''. Sure i guess i love
animals but on the flip side i only do it because it seems to me the right thing to do. I even pick up the trash around our cul-de-sac
and outlining intersection where people conveniently dump and throw their bottles or bags etc. How could Vietnamese people think
it's ok to eat animals, specifically Canine's or Felines.

To me this is NOT human or considerate it could only compare to being barbaric and savage in tendency. Im not even near perfect,
all i can try to do is be better and better. I certainly have faults i seek faithfully to improve on, but could someone tell me the difference
between someone LIKE me who lives a life of faith YES, Believes in God YES, tries to be sincere as he realizes how to YES, Tries to
Grow spiritually improve and Mature YES and the difference between a Race of people or Individuals who live in America and Don -
American names (claim they LOVE freedom!), who Claim to do and be the same as someone ''NORMAL'' can do all those things that
are Virtuous (once in america.,) but still are the same ones who languished or personally if not even secretly think it's ok to do such a
horrid thing. Your comments are appreciated. Try to stay in line, this is a sensitive issue granted that but i think it's an important one
to discuss nevertheless. I apologize if this has upset anyone. Have a safe and Happy Holiday.

[Bravery]

Redd Foxx said "A human being by nature is an animal, and a hungry human is a vicious animal". Now, it was hilarious in the context of the story he told, but it is also true.

But, there is a hypocrisy in all this. Take the PETA millionaires, who talk all day long about not eating animals, or hurting animals, and then they go and buy or have a mansion built on a place where an animal once lived and is now homeless.

I hear what you say and respect it, but I feel it is more barbaric to tell another group of people how they should live and what they should eat. I don't eat beef or pork, but if i'm out to dinner and a friend orders a porkchop sandwhich, it would be inconsiderate of me to tell him that eating a pig is wrong and he should burn in hell for being barbaric, lol. I may tell him about the pig being a filthy animal, but i'll not tell him to put the swine down. I hate cats, like goats, love dogs. If I go into a household were these creatures are on the menu, it is not my place to chastise.

There are people out there who feel eating chicken (if you've never seen how they "prepare" these chickens quickly do so) or eating any living lifeform is wrong. So, are you barbaric for feeling a chicken has its place? No, you are not. It is just a way of life. Saying a fish is okay, but a cat or dog is wrong is something i've heard before, but I just don't understand. How can taking one life for food be better than taking another life for food.

There are a lot bigger issues in this world, such as world hunger, than wether it is wrong to eat what animal. Especially if you are hungry.

Just my two cents

[greenfan]

Im a meat eater and would happily eat a cat or a dog.

[karaokequeen]

I think the real problem is not the eating of dogs and cats per se, but the judgemental attitude of your own value system.

In essence this means that your opinions are not based on verifiable fact - but a set of subjective (and shifting) ideological moral opinion.

For example, in France, Poland or Germany it is socially acceptable to eat horsemeat.
Likewise, in many hot countries it is socially acceptable to eat locusts or wittchetty grubs.
On the other hand, an indiginious Eskimo would find eating cheese revolting (to them it is rotten milk).

These are not set culinary rules - but rules set for survival.
Remember traditionally the diet of the South East Asian is one of famine - and therefore all food is fair game.

The Chinese have a saying roughly that:
'Unless it is a chair - if it has four legs - you can eat it, unless it is a table - if it has two wings - you can eat it'.

This essentially means that rather than sit in judgement over Frenchmen who eat snails or frog legs, Africans eating insects or South East Asians who eat dogs, perhaps we should be thankful for the food our 'civilised society' affords - and less critical of those who are not invited to the same table.

[Markgway]

I eat meat and fish and have done so since I was born. Frankly I try not to think about it because when I do I feel bad. No animal should die just so I can have a tasty meal. And no animal should ever be treated cruelly by humans for any purpose. I'm vehemently opposed to hunting (especially for sport) and if I had to kill my own food I'd become a vegetarian in an instant. But somehow by telling myself that the meat I eat is already dead (and would be still whether I ate it or not) I salve my conscience just enough to get by. It's a horrible subject no doubt. The idea of eating a cat or dog (animals we would consider pets) repells me. My cultural upbringing prevents me from even considering it. But farm animals - that's OK, right? Truth is: killing and eating any animal is morally wrong and it really depends on your culture as to which wrongs are considered acceptable? In Asia it appears there are no limits. In western Europe/America we pick and choose the animals it's fair game to eat. If I thought that stopping eating meat would save animals as an animal lover I'd actually do it. But one man alone isn't enough. It would take a huge cultural shift to force any impact on the market. If someone cooked a cat in front of me I'd probably knock their teeth out. But I realise the glimmer of hypocrisy in that way of thinking. I wish I could take the higher moral ground - but I can't. I'm not at all proud of who I am in this regard.

[peringaten]

Herbivores not carnivores when it comes to edible animals for my diet; unless we're talking fish, they can eat other fish before going stomach-bound.

[Cesare]

I sure don't like the way these animals are treated at many markets in Asia (just as I'm concerned about how would-become-food is often treated over here; chicken boiled alive, cows with their legs broken, such stuff)...
So yes, I do have moral objections against how these animals are often treated, before they become food.
But moral objections against eating dogs or cats?
Pig is one of the most intelligent quadrupeds on the planet. Why on earth should killing a pig for food be considered somehow more acceptable than killing a dog for food? :S
Whoever eats meat or approves of people eating meat and slaughtering animals for food is in no position whatsoever to pass judgement on people who eat meat - including cat and dog meat. It's that simple, really.

[littlefuzzy]

There are people who see their cows, chickens, and pigs as pets, but I don't know if they don't eat any meat, or not. A kid growing up on a farm may have a specific animal as a pet, and may realize that animals just like their pet are being eaten every day, to put food on the farmer's table or needed money in his pocket to pay bills. In their mind, they may separate their pet from the similar animals.

Evidently, my older brothers had a pet rabbit, and my parents asked my grandmother to watch it one day. I think she gave a story about it getting out, but she served either a "beef" stew, or a rabbit stew that night, and tried to act like it wasn't the rabbit. To her, rabbits were food, like they had been as she was growing up.

I really doubt that the Vietnamese are sitting around thinking "Ya know, it's been fun having this cat curled up on my lap, I wonder how she'd taste?" I would think that if beef was available at a comparable price, they probably would eat that as much if not more than the dogs and cats.

From what I understand, it is hard to have a nutritionally complete diet without meat (not that it can't be done.) Many vegetarians and Vegans (especially teen girls who don't research everything as well as they should) are not eating enough of an alternate protein source, and they are missing other vital nutrients as well.

If you were going to be morally opposed to eating certain animals for meat, you should be against ALL uses of ANY animal for meat, clothing, and so on.

Biblical references:

Genesis:
(after Adam & Eve ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil, and they tried to sew fig leaves together to hide their nakedness) - Shows God killed animals for clothing.
Genesis 3:21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them.

(to Noah, after the flood)
"Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. "----Genesis 9:3.

Acts:
Peter’s Vision
9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”
15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.

[The Silver Fox]

Culture is the only reason eating cats or dogs seems repulsive. We (in the west) don't normally eat those animals but we sure eats lots of other animals. Somebody from some other country would probably consider some of the stuff we eat 'gross' and unhealthy as well. I believe animals should be killed humanely of course but there is nothing immoral about consuming meat.

Before you go judging Vietnamese people for what they eat maybe you should consider that they may not have alot of alternatives and a cat or dog may be all that's available for them. What may be a sentimental 'old pal' to us may be a crucial meal to a starving family. Survival is more important.

[teako170]

You ever wonder why people have no problem watching a movie with ghosts or aliens --
but get freaked out by a carnivorous zombie or man-eating shark?
Because we think of ourselves "above" the food chain.

I can't eat veal. I watched a document on how they treat those animals and sickened me.

I recently watched another document on how they capture sharks, cut off their fins and then toss them overboard
(to drown to death) so someone in Asia can have themselves a hot bowl of shark fin soup. Sickening.

Slaughtering of whales/ dolphins just for some meat? UGH!

The bigger picture is, we humans treat the earth as our property. To do as we see fit whatever the costs.
Amazon? Hell, its just a bunch of trees? Let's burn it all!

Such a fragile eco-system we all live in and we have no clue on the consequences of our actions.
We may not see it but our children and their children will.

Littlefuzzy posted some quotes. Allow me two more:

"Soylent Green is made out of people. They're making our food out of people. Next thing they'll be breeding us like cattle for food."

"Besides, man is a nuisance. He eats up his food supplies in the forest, then migrates to our green belts and ravages our crops. The sooner he is exterminated the better."

[bjv666]

I recently watched another document on how they capture sharks, cut off their fins and then toss them overboard
(to drown to death) so someone in Asia can have themselves a hot bowl of shark fin soup. Sickening. [/I]



...or how SHARKS sneak up on unsuspecting Swimmers out just having a good time in the water with their families and Eat them or bite off their limbs.....just so THEY can have a meal.

or those people who wanted to "Save the BEARS in a certain forest" --
only to be eaten by those Same bears.

Did you know that a BEAR is probably the most dangerous animal that you could face?
They can run - like a human
Climb a tree - Like a human
Swim ---------like a human

** Polar Bears can DIVE in deep icy waters and run on slippery ice and no matter how much you might love them,
they will still KILL you.



When you're in the forest, you're in THEIR home/area and YOU are their "Food Chain".
I doubt you could Talk your way out of getting eating by bears.



or the couple who were "savagely" attacked by their "pet" chimpanzees - the guy lost half his face and part of his GROIN!!
People think just because you put a Diaper on them that they [chimps] are cute, but that doesn't disguise the fact the they are Stll WILD animals..........there's a ReasoN that they swing from trees...


or people who have their Cars wrecked by DEER and their Insurance doesn't cover such accidents. To make matters worst, you can't EAT the same deer, because hit was hit by a Car and not a Bullet...

or the fact that 30+ years ago, no Kungfu fan was worried about the killing of animals in their favorite films, yet, to talk aboout it NOW, it's "horrifying".


You think if a Whale eat you, it would "put you back on Land" because you weren't big enough to eat or it was just catching you because it could....?

If an animal will eat their own off-spring, what would make you think that YOU would stand a chance.


People only seem to worry about these things at certain times and during all other times -- they eat those Burgers and pork, etc, etc, etc...

Animals are different that man..........they hunt for survival.
Man hunts for Profit, Prestige (trophies), and to Pilfer


People claim that they care about the Earth NOW, yet those same people throughout their lives
have littered and wasted in excess.


If you were truly "horrified" and wanted to do something.......you'd be writing about it for an organization that was doing something about it -- not on a "KUNG FU forum board"....



If you feel that strongly about Animals, don't eat them - in burgers, on pizza, and see how long it lasts.

and when you're with that "Special someone" - you'll spend hours trying to convince her to eat something
that probably shouldn't go in her mouth anyway.....




Bottom Line:

A human being is more important than ANY animal could EVER be - [I don't care how many TRICKS you've taught them]

Let it go...live your life.



Would you kill them? :

http://www.monsterpig.com/

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_razorback_hog.htm

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/h/hogzilla.htm

*** Tell me what do you see in All of these pics?



I met Carmine Orrico Thursday night - Nice time.

bjv

[Cesare]

...
Bottom Line:

A human being is more important than ANY animal could EVER be - [I don't care how many TRICKS you've taught them]



Nah. Human being is nothing special. I personally only care about those I like... :angel:
(Though I happen to like a lot of people...)

Before somebody asks - no, I am not going to go and feed the crocodiles in Australia - not if I can help it...:-]
Sense of self-preservation works just fine. At least on the personal level. :-]

[ironfistedmonk]

I don't care what meat it is, if it's cooked well I'd eat a rat burger. XD

[littlefuzzy]

One thing I left out of my post, part of the reason we wouldn't want to eat dogs and cats is that they are carnivores (and/or scavengers) and I think it's healthier to eat herbivores. The same would apply to rats (above post), unless they were farm raised or something, I would hesitate to eat a rat... They live in sewers and might have diseases...

[The Silver Fox]

My brother in law says that in the Philippines, it is common to eat rats that they catch on sugar plantations. Apparently the 'asukal rat' feeds largely on the sugarcane and grows to be quite plump and delicious.

[teako170]

...or how SHARKS sneak up on unsuspecting Swimmers out just having a good time in the water with their families and Eat them or bite off their limbs.....just so THEY can have a meal.

No comparison.
One shark eats one person or one person eats one shark.
That's dinner.

But that's not the doc was about it.
It was about slaughter.

Imagine if a shark came onto land (I said "imagine"), chopped off the arms of a 100 people and let them bleed to death just so they could go make themselves a nice cup of soup. Would be pretty f'ed up, no?

Humans are the brightest species on the planet and yet we're also the biggest blight to this planet.
Sooner or later, we will reap what we have sewed.

[littlefuzzy]

Imagine if a shark came onto land


"Candygram"

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

I eat some meat! But in the grand scheme of things, there really isn't one single animal that DESERVES to die. They are not capable of being mean, malignant or evil. They just go by instinct.

Whereas there are millions of human beings all over the world that truly DESERVES to die.

[karaokequeen]

To find out what hungry humans are really capable of...

Alive (1993)

In October 1972, a plane chartered by the Uruguayan rugby team crashed in to the snow-covered Andes. Many passengers were killed on contact, but several people survived. They only had rations for a short time. When they learned through their transistor radio that the search effort for their plane had been aborted, two team members tried to cross the Andes in search of civilization. A young medical student warned them that if they wanted to survive until help arrived they must eat the flesh of their dead compatriots. When the trekkers who succeeded in reaching Chile returned with help some time later, 16 had been kept alive through cannibalism, and 29 had died from the accident, the avalanche, and the cruelty of the weather.

[WuxiaFan]

WTF does this have to do with Kung Fu Cinema? :mad:

This discussion, although interesting, does not belong on this Forum, IMO.

[Mark Pollard]

Actually, this topic does belong in this forum, the General Forum that is. As an online community with a shared interest, it's okay to have an opportunity to discuss off topics that we may not all have a shared interest in such as Michael Jackson, eating animals, Asian music, etc. Obviously, some topics may be deemed too offensive or inappropriate but I don't see this being one of them, at least not yet. :)

[teako170]

"Candygram"

HAHAHAHA!
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/saturday-night-live-season-1-land-shark/1415496980


To find out what hungry humans are really capable of... Alive (1993)

Yes, good film!

[Mark Pollard]

I'm going to throw in my two cents on this topic. I'm a lifelong dog and cat lover currently with two small dogs and a cat and I have no objection to another culture finding it socially acceptable to harvest these animals for meat so long as they are not mistreated or tortured beforehand as so many livestock in the U.S. are.

Humans are part of the food chain and in a practical sense, dogs and cats have no special place above livestock apart from our culture's tendency to view one as a companion and the other as food. What we should be focusing on is having more respect for the animals we eat and keep.

What I find more disturbing are the thousands of pets and racing animals that are euthanized in America each year, not to keep us fed but to deal with the rampant animal overpopulation and neglect that occurs when people choose to be irresponsible pet owners or support exploitive entertainment such as dog fighting or racing.

[lillippa328]

Its simple......its the cycle of LIFE....



if we didnt eat meat...animals would be over populated.....



lil bugs eat us when we die....lol...its better than letting meat go 2 waste...like whe whities did when they used to kill the natives buffalo

[Tosh]

No comparison.
One shark eats one person or one person eats one shark.
That's dinner.



Technically you have a better chance of getting hit by lightning than tagged by a shark, we're to boney and not so tasty. Most shark bites happen by accident, if you find yourself in a school of fish you'd be best to get out of it.

[Markgway]

...or how SHARKS sneak up on unsuspecting Swimmers out just having a good time in the water with their families and Eat them or bite off their limbs.....just so THEY can have a meal.

Hardly any humans are killed by Sharks (about 50 per year max) whereas millions of Sharks are killed by humans. Sound fair? And Sharks don't kill humans for food but for self-defence (when they're space is threatened). So try getting a clue before posting bullshit.

A human being is more important than ANY animal could EVER be - [I don't care how many TRICKS you've taught them]

Not so. For example you're less important to me than any animal I've ever encountered. See. It's a matter of opinion isn't it?

No comparison.
One shark eats one person or one person eats one shark.
That's dinner.

But that's not the doc was about it.
It was about slaughter.

Imagine if a shark came onto land (I said "imagine"), chopped off the arms of a 100 people and let them bleed to death just so they could go make themselves a nice cup of soup. Would be pretty f'ed up, no?

Humans are the brightest species on the planet and yet we're also the biggest blight to this planet.
Sooner or later, we will reap what we have sewed.

Agreed.

I eat some meat! But in the grand scheme of things, there really isn't one single animal that DESERVES to die. They are not capable of being mean, malignant or evil. They just go by instinct. Whereas there are millions of human beings all over the world that truly DESERVES to die.

Good point. Maybe we should cook death row inmates and feed the poor? Just a thought... Seriously though... TBC is right. Animals don't have a rational thought process. They do what they do without thinking. Humans cannot say the same. We KNOW what we do is wrong but continue to do it anyways. And then come up with ridiculous reasons in justification.

[bjv666]

Hardly any humans are killed by Sharks (about 50 per year max) whereas millions of Sharks are killed by humans. Sound fair? And Sharks don't kill humans for food but for self-defence (when they're space is threatened). So try getting a clue before posting bullshit.

Are you feeling okay, Mark?
Just checking....As you usually are a person who talks like he has [some] sense...


self-defense?

*** The OCEAN is a big place, there's no way that with all that SPACE could a shark feel THREATED.

The people who mostly do that to Sharks for their Fins are the SAME ones whose films this forum supports - ASIANS.

As this is an Asian dish.



Not so. For example you're less important to me than any animal I've ever encountered. See. It's a matter of opinion isn't it?

I see.

But I'll be kind.

[No Comment - Except I {somehow} expected more from YOU, but (hey) I've been wrong before.......]

take care.


bjv

[Daigoro]

Cat's and Dogs have a certain sensitivity which you can sense if you are in the spirit. It goes beyond any dimension of meaning
or realization a Cow, a Fish, Pig or Chicken could hope to possess. They are unusually highly keen and perceptive, so much so
that their senses in way exceed or mirror our own. Overall even though it may not be seen so much on the surface level they
also walk in a certain light, they carry a certain aura with them which is distinct and different from the ones the former, (Cows
Fish, Chicken and Pigs) walk in because they have nothing. This includes the quality or any quality beyond the 1 dimensional
frame of being awake and eating which they exist solely. In other words it's not the same, and spiritually are probably penalties
for the humans who treat Cats or Dogs with sheer barbarism. Those individuals may not realize it's be part of their own plight.

If you look at a picture of a Cat what do you see. Even if you live in the "United States" each person has only come to realize
a Cat or a Dog in my opinion through what seems like a revolving door from what they think they see in general. The levels
of the importance is only close to the truth once you have come to value yourself which was my point from the start. I would
like to point this picture out to the jury. Think of this exercise in conjunction with the Ink blots the Psychologists holds up to try
and understand you. What do you see. For each person it is different but there is only one truth just as their is only a single
inkblot (represented by the image of a cat). There is a clear line, in fact a specific level these animals live in according to the laws
that they were created in and exist in which separates them. This realm of sense is Beyond any passing phase of unnecessary or
Zealous fanaticism's about Cats or Dogs. I hope you see the truth in this.

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/9945/cato.jpg

I am at risk of entering into Zone when people usually read me talking this way they either fall silent or get pissed off but
i decided to continue anyway, It's just the way i am don't worry i will stop and be gone again soon after again. Biblically
when god created the earth it was perfect. In fact there were no limits, there was not even need for hope until man came
along. Everything came from a specific Nexus of possibility and it was startlingly perfect and brilliant. Time has passed, it's
not the same time (which is always borrowed time) we humans come to realize and live within the fragile laws of. Overall
we are off course spiritually on countless levels from many truths and realizations not just this topic. This topic, is only a
discussion but initially it had to do with the Savage sheer and obvious loss of humanity and or lack spiritual insight i felt
Vietnamese people have not only eating Cat's and Dogs but also (for the sake of felines and canines) how they are seem
to Harvest animals which were not Gods intention or creation to eat like Barbecue Chickens.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/5976/cagedcatsmos0703468x572.jpg
It's just not right. I don't have to be Civilized, Educated to be able to see, know what is right and what is definitely wrong.

Something is missing here and it's not just Canines or Felines, it's compassion and emotion. A certain lack of sensitivity in the
spirit of Gods truth and Laws have been broken. There will be consequences for this. I was unsure how people felt inside
a general sense. Thanks for the insights. Everyone had a different take or opinion but morally and spiritually i believe i have
come closer to knowing what matters according to the law and not what we think.

We (in the USA) also harvest Chickens and Cows and Pigs or fish and also have the potential to become savages. I think
there is a time where everyone has to do either or and cannot live both or he is lying to himself where it counts the most.
Anyone person is capable of doing worse things than harvesting Cats and Dogs for slaughter, but still amognst rape and
murder, lies, stealing which every single country is guilty of in varying extents at least we did not eat Cat's or Dogs. Also
it's impossible to label a race as Guilty because some people even if confined to a certain country or place know better.
No matter what the crime the people who break the laws and do this (even if unknowingly) have entered a cycle which
includes more punishment. The person here who brought in the versus of the Bible, thanks i was interested in reading
the biblical foundation and did not have the gull to dig up the verses. I think that the way the first cycle was brought into
being was so that we could eat Herbs, Plants, Fruits, Vegetable, Cows, Chickens, Fish and to and even swine (herbivores).
It's not my duty to throw blame on a poor race who have to eat Dogs and Cats but my argument is according to Gods
law he made certain animals to eat and others were not to be eaten so there are penalties. It could be the country is in
plight because of such practices since more than one area seems to become compromised. You can never say that it's the
only thing for them to eat because they HARVEST Cat's and Dogs when they should have stuck to raising the herbivores.

Someone said it was ok to eat Cat's and Dogs even Harvest them but they disagree with the way it's done and also
mentioned but that the treatment or how it's done is something they disagree with. I ask what will the difference be if they
are all being beaten or taken to Disneyland if they are all being eaten in the end. Sometimes we feed whats left over from
our plates to our pets but what do they do with the remains of what left of those dinner plates. Saw these words, ''Because
we live in the USA we think we have become Civil, and so it's easy to frown on another race who has nothing to eat when
we are no better. The argument does not have much to do with me hating Vietnamese i dont. The laws state there is a level
of spiritual desensitization as well as specific desynchronizations that will take place once are morals become compromised.
Our decisions in any and all given moments and time reflect our maturity and determine how the rest of our lives will play.
What makes the people who eat Cats and dogs think it would be within spiritual and moral even physical law of being right
unless they did not have morals, understand physical law or spiritual insight which gives us dignity and virtue.

Once we detach from the divine into one of believing in ourselves as a source of power affects order on countless levels.
I recommend to be very careful what you are thinking and saying because it is also a determinate of the realm of possibility
that you will exist or even cease to. Work hard at trying to uncover all those things that make us blind. Just because we have
eyes does not mean we can see, our eyes can grow dim fast. The same with our ears except they become muted. It's called a
dumb spirit. They are not as dumb as you think. Because they have power they will try and rob you of your existence and
blot out your light so they are really not that stupid, they only make you stupid so you can't see. I was never aware of how
lost i was until i started attending the meeting of three different evangelists while on their crusades when they came close to
where i lived. Reinhard Bonnke, David Herzog and Todd Bentley.

I became almost painfully aware of the gifts of the spirit and how my descions affected everything. I stopped focusing on
myself and i began to feel unleash from the many bonds and strongholds that held me down into a dimension of miracles
and possibility. It's unlimited if you could ever get the focus off yourself and on God as much as you can fight to then do it.
Only then will you begin to soften your heart, even begin to think of other people, how small amount a time you have with
your family and how much you have developed into a real man. The Holy Ghost turned my world USPIDE DOWN again but
because i already was Upside down i ended up RIGHTSIDE UP. I stopped eating beef 5 months ago because i wanted to feel
alive again. Im not really old but i felt a need to feel as i had when i was a kid. The way i knew i felt and the same feeling that
seemed to visit me when i was younger seemed to visit me less. This is because of the toxins in the body as well as spiritual
desensitization. This also proves what the laws of Physics states which is that everything is connected even more so than you
can believe. At this rate i may end up a vegetarian but i am not in a hurry only on towards a pace that is steady. There is only
so much time here on this earth and i don't want to waste any of it. It's important for me when i look in the mirror that i was
hearing not what i told myself but have come to believe in because of God or else i will be lost.

In the end, i ask only one Question. When you look in the mirror what do you see. What's really there and is that the truth
you see. Do you take time out to fight for the truth or get a hold of nothing more than fleeting glances of what's possible.
In order to walk in true power you have go realize it comes from a SINGULAR FORM that have come together not just one so
your ideas cannot be all over the place. So make sure your endless whims, short lived fantasies whims, beliefs, ideas do not
defeat you too or your pecking order may be compromised as well.

[Markgway]

The people who mostly do that to Sharks for their Fins are the SAME ones whose films this forum supports - ASIANS.

So... if you like Asian movies you must therefore support anything that Asians do no matter how barbaric? Riiiight.

I don't have anything personal against you. I just get really fired up when anyone comes out with this survival of the fittest/humans are at the top of the food chain drivel.

[Cesare]

Cat's and Dogs have a certain sensitivity which you can sense if you are in the spirit. It goes beyond any dimension of meaning
or realization a Cow, a Fish, Pig or Chicken could hope to possess.
blah blah blah

I was going to post something awfully long but it would be a waste of effort and I might get tempted to start talking about Bible and you wouldn't like that...

Your line of thought sickens me. :S
Sorry if I sound judgemental. I guess we all feel strongly about something and it's never pleasant when two opposing sentiments clash like that.
And I guess I'll leave it at that.

[Bravery]

I believe in God, as the creator of the universe. But, I doubt you have ever been around any cows, or horses, or crabs, or fish, or any of the animals you deemed neccessary for human consumption, to notice if they have any spirit.

Have you ever been in a chicken house, or seen what is done to a chicken? They feel every bit of the pain they're put through before they make it to your plate. All dogs go to heaven? I don't know, but I do know that if any being is feeling pain, human or other, then there is some sort of emotional feeling there. There is a horse farm nearby where I stay, and people eat horses, and you say horses are one of those spiritless animals that are here for nothing other than to be eaten; but, have you ever been near a horse? or a pig for that matter. They are not stupid, they know what is going on. And, know who means them harm and who has been good to them.

What constitutes a spirit in your books?

And, for de-spiritualization, there are no more "desensitive" people than so-called Christians. Anyone who eats cats (I can't stand cats) or dogs( I love dogs) is no less spiritual than you. And, just becuase in a "civilized" country cows are breed to be eaten, doesn't mean that it is not civilized to breed a cat to be eaten just because you are against it.

Just because YOU keep them as pets doesnt mean the rest of the worlds should. I fast one day a week, because it is good for me. Is the rest of the world not civilized because they don't do the same? It is ridiculous thinking, is it not?

And, outside of the pig, I don't think the bible mentions any animal as being against the nature of law to eat? I could be wrong. But, in the bible, even that is subjectable. I don't eat pig, not because it is morally wrong, but, becasuse I like not having it on my colon for several weeks.

Also, there is a lot of saying immoral or un-spiritual talk comming from you, Daigoro, but what does the bible say about placing that judgement on others?

And to those who say animals attack humans, animals only attack when we go where we have no buisiness being. We messed with them, not the other way around.

[Yang Wu Liang]

I've been trying to make sense of what you're saying Daigoro but it's difficult trawling through your pseudo-intellectual babbling.

I'm sure eating cats and dogs can seem abhorent to some of us westerners, probably because of the anthropomorphism of pets by halfwits who think they are actually the same as humans. Aren't pigs as intelligent as cats and dogs? I don't hear any outcry about eating them.

It does seem ironic that you can harp on about your christianity while being so judgemental of other cultures.

Edit: We posted at the same time bravery, you summed up exactly what I was thinking but didn't have time to write! Nice one.

[Tosh]

This is a prime example how people take religion and god and twist it into something THEY want to believe in - so everyone else has to too.

Cats are no more special than any other animal, and they are just as vicious as any animal including humans, male cats will chew the heads off of new born male kittens if given the chance, why? Less competition to breed, so much for animals not murdering other animals, would you think somehow god approves of this? Monkeys will also murder each other for no reason. Nature and religion should not be confused.

This being said I love cats and dogs and had a few pets over the years, but calling another culture out for eating them is very spoiled, most people over there live like peasants and probably eat a fraction that Westerners get and take for granted. Take a trip there and find out for yourself.

[vengeanceofhumanlanterns]

"Cat's and Dogs have a certain sensitivity which you can sense if you are in the spirit. It goes beyond any dimension of meaning
or realization a Cow, a Fish, Pig or Chicken could hope to possess."

I doubt cats and dogs are more sensitive than the animals you've compared them to or any other creature in nature. ALL creatures are highly sensitive. It's mankinds inability to perceive it that goes right past people like you. Dogs, cats, and birds have been domesticated for so long and bred for temperment, so they SEEM to be so much more keen to human beings. Try to pet a pack of wild dogs. You wouldn't get within a hundred feet of a wild cat. Unless you caught it off guard.

And as far as religion goes. The underlying, universal principles of peace, love, truth, goodwill, etc of the major religions are all anyone should be following. Beyond these, people lose respect for the inherent freewill of humankind, and start trying to manipulate, control, or condemn others. Self-righteous illusions. Advertant or not.

[Markgway]

Cats are no more special than any other animal, and they are just as vicious as any animal including humans, male cats will chew the heads off of new born male kittens if given the chance, why? Less competition to breed, so much for animals not murdering other animals, would you think somehow god approves of this? Monkeys will also murder each other for no reason. Nature and religion should not be confused.

No one is saying that animals don't do horrible things. My point was that animals do so because of instinct. They don't have rational thought processes. (Well, maybe Dolphins do?) They act cruelly based on survival instinct. Not for fun or pleasure. Humans think about what they do beforehand and choose whether or not to act out. Short of extreme mental illness: Humans know what they kill and why. Also when animals kill they don't have access to weapons and machines. It's not a business for them: It's life or death. We don't have that excuse. You know I'm a meat eater so I'm condemning myself. Another aspect is in the abhorent treatment of animals before they're executed. See the terrible picture Diagoro posted of those poor cats trapped in hellish conditions. Humans have no god-given right to treat any creature like that and then arrogantly justify it with bilge (religious or otherwise).

[Tosh]

No one is saying that animals don't do horrible things. My point was that animals do so because of instinct. They don't have rational thought processes. (Well, maybe Dolphins do?) They act cruelly based on survival instinct. Not for fun or pleasure. Humans think about what they do beforehand and choose whether or not to act out. Short of extreme mental illness: Humans know what they kill and why. Also when animals kill they don't have access to weapons and machines. It's not a business for them: It's life or death. We don't have that excuse. You know I'm a meat eater so I'm condemning myself. Another aspect is in the abhorent treatment of animals before they're executed. See the terrible picture Diagoro posted of those poor cats trapped in hellish conditions. Humans have no god-given right to treat any creature like that and then arrogantly justify it with bilge (religious or otherwise).

So the Vietnamese aren't acting on survival? Go there and see how they live before anybody passes judgement, some live worse than what we would call bums here in the west, living in little dirt floored shacks if they're lucky, remember that when everyone goes to bed in their air conditioned or heated homes and sleep on their nice clean sheets on an actual bed.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

I only eat animals that have died of natural causes.

[HyperDrive]

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/177c7b46e4.jpg

We were meant to be omnivores. It's why we have molars and canines not one or the other.

About the mistreatment of livestock, well, what do you expect when you let corporations own the food supply? Everyone knows free-range organic is the best and tastiest but everyone thinks price first, not to mention corporations think profit first. So we end up with third-rate food pumped full of hormones and God knows what else. Although, we are pretty lucky not to have to hunt/gather or even farm.

Also, before we even start with the living conditions of animals, don't you think every human being should be taken care of first? After all, we're supposed to be stewards of the earth and if we can't take care of each other...... For example, most animals in this country have better living conditions than an average day-laborer almost anywhere else.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html

To me, that's sickening. What's even more sickening is that animals have more help in this country than people who actually need help such as battered families, the homeless and etc. Like I was watching one of those animal rescue shows, this squirrel got shot with a bb gun and they put in splints and gave it complete spinal realignment. Wtf, medical charities don't even give that stuff out most of the time.

To me, this suggests the common bonds that once bound all of humanity together have broken and society is too. Indeed, people are already substituting pets for children because "They're easier to care for." :(

The only things I'm against is trophy hunting (If you going to kill it better use it or eat it all) and stuff like shark-fin and tiger penis soup where only one part of the animal is used and the rest is thrown away.

[inframan]

I only eat animals that have died of natural causes.

Old age? How about Anthrax? That's a natural cause :angel:

But seriously, the main disucssion IMO, its because they are our pets and to a certain degree because are carnivores.

First, in the west cats and dogs are companion animals they are the most common domesticated animals that we have living in our homes. Seems like an absurd thought that anyone would eat them, I think thats what drives this discussion the most.

Second, I agree with the comments about carnivores vs herbavores to some extent. Think about wild animals. Many people eat deer meat, I don't know of any that eat a coyote.

I thougth the old rumor was that Koreans eat dogs. Vietnamese too? I know a Indonesian who's tried it in his youth.

[inframan]

Like I was watching one of those animal rescue shows, this squirrel got shot with a bb gun and they put in splints and gave it complete spinal realignment. Wtf, medical charities don't even give that stuff out most of the time.


Be careful this thread could also fall victim to an endless string of Seinfeld quotes with stories like that. http://www.kungfucinema.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8188&page=3

[HyperDrive]

Second, I agree with the comments about carnivores vs herbavores to some extent. Think about wild animals. Many people eat deer meat, I don't know of any that eat a coyote.

I thougth the old rumor was that Koreans eat dogs. Vietnamese too? I know a Indonesian who's tried it in his youth.

It's more widespread than one would think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat

Oh, and I'll try not to accidentally divert the thread into Seinfeld quotes. :p

[Kaal]

Obviousley Daigoro sees cats and dogs just as pets, that's why he has such dificulties to understand how people can eat them. But people don't share your view all over the world.

Think about Hindus, how do you think they look at people in the west eating cow's? I guess it's as sick to them as that some people are eating dogs is for you. People think differently..

[silver hermit]

i think you guys are reading too far into it the simple answer of the origonal question is because cats and dogs taste like chicken

[massa_yoda]

I have a kind-of humorous, yet sad story that can apply to this thread. I was told a story just a couple weeks ago about a missionary couple in China (i think) who were walking their dog and went into a restaurant just for a snack. The waiter took their dog and they thought he was just putting it into a special kennel or something, but soon after they were served their own dog. They got up and left. Now, why they thought they could enter the place with their pet is beyond me, but that's culture shock for ya. As far as the special spiritual quality of a dog or cat, i offer this:

This is literally a 'church signs' debate, being played out in a Southern town, between the Catholic church and a (fundamentalist) Presbyterian church. From top to bottom shows you the response and counter-response over time.

The Catholics are displaying a much better sense of humor! You get the impression that the Presbyterians are actually taking this seriously!

The churches face across from each other on a busy street

http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/ya/download?mid=1%5f8325%5fANcIw0MAAFtASdtiaA1g%2bxh7 dLQ&pid=2&fid=Inbox&inline=1

http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/ya/download?mid=1%5f8325%5fANcIw0MAAFtASdtiaA1g%2bxh7 dLQ&pid=3&fid=Inbox&inline=1

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http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/ya/download?mid=1%5f8325%5fANcIw0MAAFtASdtiaA1g%2bxh7 dLQ&pid=5&fid=Inbox&inline=1

http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/ya/download?mid=1%5f8325%5fANcIw0MAAFtASdtiaA1g%2bxh7 dLQ&pid=6&fid=Inbox&inline=1

http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/ya/download?mid=1%5f8325%5fANcIw0MAAFtASdtiaA1g%2bxh7 dLQ&pid=7&fid=Inbox&inline=1

http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/ya/download?mid=1%5f8325%5fANcIw0MAAFtASdtiaA1g%2bxh7 dLQ&pid=8&fid=Inbox&inline=1

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[littlefuzzy]

^ I see NUTTINK!

[Cesare]

As for being served your own pet for a snack - there's a lovely Czech TV commercial that totally failed its original purpose as nobody seemed to really remember or care what exactly that commercial was promoting - but the whole nation loved it...XD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax9n2AwZPUU
(The woman asks the waiter/attendant to "take care of her Bobik". The outcome is - well - predictable...;-))

[inframan]

I have a kind-of humorous, yet sad story that can apply to this thread. I was told a story just a couple weeks ago about a missionary couple in China (i think) who were walking their dog and went into a restaurant just for a snack. The waiter took their dog and they thought he was just putting it into a special kennel or something, but soon after they were served their own dog. They got up and left. Now, why they thought they could enter the place with their pet is beyond me, but that's culture shock for ya.


Sounds like an urban legend to me. Although I'm told this kind of thing does happen at many cashew kitty resturants in Springfield.XD

[massa_yoda]

ah, so you've been here before. Chinese restaurant on every corner!

It is a real story. I know because i was informed by someone who deals directly with the missionary couple that this happened to.

[Blood Sword]

We eat chicken,pork,lamb etc...some even bear and cobra but that is expensive fun.How come eating those is ok but cats and dogs so horrible thing?
Because they are cuter and we have those on pets?
Animals were not made to be entertainers for us humans,all are on same level in my eyes and if tastes good I do it(I have eaten cat in asia).

[Markgway]

You know, if there's somekind of afterlife we should probably all burn for we've done (and continue to do) to 'God's creatures'. Man's inhumane treatment to animals is abominable and I feel genuine shame for eating meat - if I could start my life again as a veggie I would. If I did something as awful as eating a cat (knowing also how badly it would've been treated in advance) I certainly wouldn't brag about it. Of course I never would do such a thing. Cats and dogs are domesticated animals not farm animals bred for meat and produce. I'm not saying it's right to breed any animal for meat just that it's a bit different. I think there are definitely some creatures you shouldn't eat. I mean, we wouldn't eat humans would we?

[Blood Sword]

. I mean, we wouldn't eat humans would we?We would not maybe but I am not sure of some tribes in africa or amazon jungle....

[odioustrident]

I think the historical point about not eating cats/dogs was that they are carnivores, and there are probably some health issues with eating them. We also need to project human qualities on the life around us, and this results in the Hollywood treatment for whales, horses, common pets etc...

I think we focus a little too much on animal cruelty when it comes to common pets, eg with the Michael Vick case when the public doesn't take half the time to address what goes on in the food industry.

I could easily see chicken or cattle as good pets honestly (haha), and I get pretty annoyed when another animal's life is suddenly worth more for seemingly shallow reasons. I also think the use of pure "guard dogs" treats them as a utility, in a way similar enough to using livestock or fighting animals.

Can't believe this thread is still going....and I'm writing on it. :squigglemouth:

[Tosh]

I think we focus a little too much on animal cruelty when it comes to common pets, eg with the Michael Vick case when the public doesn't take half the time to address what goes on in the food industry.



Maybe it would have been acceptable if he ate the dogs?:angel: Vick dug his own hole, he had the world, he thought he was above it, it wasn't just the dogs, he was running an illegal gambling circut, that's why he really went to jail. I lived in Atlanta, he was a serious douchebag before that came to light.

[Markgway]

We would not maybe but I am not sure of some tribes in africa or amazon jungle....

Yeah, but they're savages. I would hope we in civilized countries aspire to greater things.

I could easily see chicken or cattle as good pets honestly (haha), and I get pretty annoyed when another animal's life is suddenly worth more for seemingly shallow reasons.

It's a fair point. For some people chickens and sheep etc are kept as pets. Once you get emotionally attached to an animal it's species doesn't matter. It's like family.

[HyperDrive]

Anyone here ever heard of the Three Screams delicacy? Just wondering if this is an urban myth.

[Stuntman Jules]

I eat meat, but have contemplated and tried going vegetarian. It's wrecked havoc upon my body's metabolism both times and sadly I do like how meat tastes. It's hard to enjoy world cuisine without at least eating some meat.

I try not to eat that much beef, it's very bad for the environment. Pork is hard to quit, you know, sausages, Chinese pork buns, bacon, it's all goooood. But it's not good for the animals. I've seen some stuff on how pigs are treated (though the PETA-type stuff exaggerates and sometimes makes occasional abuses seem commonplace) and its really abhorrent. If I knew where the meat I was eating came from, factory farms or otherwise, I could choose more wisely. I refuse to buy non-organic eggs if I can help it. Chickens are treated horribly too.

There's really no difference to me eating a dog or a cat as opposed to a cow or a pig. Baby cows are just like dogs. I might even try dog if I'm ever in China just to piss people off. I'm not so much against the killing of animals for food, our beloved dogs and cats are carnivores after all, I'm against how the creatures are bred, miserably kept half alive in dank, filthy cramped compartments and abused.

In some weird way I respect how the Asians do it much more than Americans. We go the zoo and look at the cute polar bears and love Fido while getting double-cheeseburgers at the McDonalds drive through and never see or care how it was created. The Asians have tanks of eels and ala carte pig intestines and cow stomachs in their groceries stores (and that's just in the ones here in America) and freely leave ducks, pig heads, snakes and roast dogs on meat hooks in their marketplaces. At least they're more comfortable with and in touch with the duality of things.