Question about Buddha

[lillippa328]

I have this dressor I decorate in all Chinese decorations, dragons, tigers, ect in my room...my question is, what exactly does buddha represent? If im catholic, would having a small buddha statue be blasphemous? Do their idea's conflict strongly enough?

[lillippa328]

Ok, that explains some...I always thought Buddha was supposed to be a God or looked at as a Jesus type figure of the Buddhist religion. But, correct me if im wrong, it seems to me that he is a nice person, who teaches people to love and care....



So if I am a believer in the Catholic faith, and God himself, it shouldn't be wrong of me to have a Buddha statue right? I read that Buddha himself believed in God(s), tho his teachings do not have a God like belief to them, per-say correct?


Either way, with Buddha not demoralizing another religion,teachings, or any religions God, he should be looked at as a righteous person never-the-less.




Which now makes me wonder...could somebody be Buddhist and Christian? Or Buddhist and Jewish?

[Dai Marlo]

Which now makes me wonder...could somebody be Buddhist and Christian? Or Buddhist and Jewish? That is kind of a tricky question. I've talked to some Buddhist that say, yes, you can be both Buddhist and Christian and I've talked to some fundamentalist Christians that say you absolutely can NOT be both. But then again I have seen some more moderate Christians that are on the fence about it.

That is not much of an answer, is it?

[butcher wing]

i believe you can take ideals and understanding from Buddhism and apply then to your life and your religious beliefs and practices. Understanding oneself can benefit you in life no matter what religion you are.

[DeathFuMaster]

As long as you are not worshipping Buddha, having him in your room is all good. Taking some of the teaching is alright to, many differnt religions have things that apply to life and not just religion itself.

[Yi-Long]

Muhammad Ali once said it best, and I don't know his quote word-for-word, but basically he just said that it doesn't matter much in what 'God' you believe in, as long as your religion is 'love'.

[bengs]

I was baptized as a Christian (I wouldn't exactly say my family carry Christian morals particularly in regards to their relationship with each other)... but I value Buddhist teachings and I also have a small figure of Buddha in my room.. As I understand earlier Buddhist followers recognized, I don't see Buddha as a God, and I don't believe he ever saw himself that way either..... I believe Buddha was a good teacher with a enlightened view of life and living compared to other fellow people and he shared that with all.. I find that understanding his teachings helps me live and understand my life better in the present, in the life I am in now, and how I live my life and how my being affects the others around me or who I meet, rather than following testaments solely to determine the outcome of my soul after death.. that is not to say that I do not recognize the Christian testaments, but you're putting them all together and applying it to this life, and at the same time attaining merit or living the best life you can to carry over to the next life.. whether born again or meeting judgement

Anyway, whatever religion you were raised under or baptized or converted to, I think every religion has the same meaning and purpose, and taking teachings from each different religion just helps you live better and be a better person.

Take a look at this article which I thought was interesting..

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/12/14/when_jesus_met_buddha/

It is the Catholic/Roman/European denominations that refuse to accept the validity of other religions, but the earliest Christians who followed the Nazarenes, based in the Middle East & Asia in particular, learned and shared ideas with other Eastern Religions.. there are monuments which depict a Cross stemming from a lotus root..

http://www.chinaheritagequarterly.org/005/_pix/chn5inscriptionsB38.jpg

[Yi-Long]

That is kind of a tricky question. I've talked to some Buddhist that say, yes, you can be both Buddhist and Christian and I've talked to some fundamentalist Christians that say you absolutely can NOT be both. But then again I have seen some more moderate Christians that are on the fence about it.

That is not much of an answer, is it?

I wouldn't take advice from 'fundementalists' about religion or anything else for that matter. They're close-minded idiots.

Then again, I wouldnt worry about insulting or upsetting any imaginary 'Gods' anyway.
God and religion was invented by mankind, in order to gain power over people and their beliefs and conduct.
'Don't do that or 'God' will punish you and send you to 'Hell'
'What's 'God' and what's 'Hell'!?!?
'Let me tell ya....'
...
'Holy shit!!! Thanks for the heads up! I'll make sure I won't do that again or I'll surely go to hell!'

Just be a 'good' person in order to make the world and your surroundings a better place. Don't do it for some 'God' and don't do it just so you can get into 'Heaven' or anything like that. Just be a good person cause you have respect and values etc.
You don't need 'religion' to be a good person. Be your own 'God', your own judge and jury.

Anyway, I think we've had this discussion many many times now. I know people will just stick to what they believe in, and we'll just end up in an endless battle of words and wits and people will get upset and offended etc etc, so I'll stop now. :crossedlips:

[HyperDrive]

A Buddhist temple, a half-hour away from me, is celebrating the obtainment of a relic of Buddha. In Catholicism, relics of saints are highly prized. So they do have that common.

Some good articles on Buddhism's view of evolution, gods, the soul and etc.

http://http://www.wattmunisota.org/buddhism.htm

Christianity's boat has taken on a lot of water. From what I heard and read, a lot of denominations have diluted their doctrines to nothingness in the name of "modernization" and "trendiness." Mainly, they sold out in order to fill the pews. For anyone wondering, I was raised Lutheran but not following any particular religion right now.

[bengs]

I wouldn't take advice from 'fundementalists' about religion or anything else for that matter. They're close-minded idiots.

Then again, I wouldnt worry about insulting or upsetting any imaginary 'Gods' anyway.
God and religion was invented by mankind, in order to gain power over people and their beliefs and conduct.
'Don't do that or 'God' will punish you and send you to 'Hell'
'What's 'God' and what's 'Hell'!?!?
'Let me tell ya....'
...
'Holy shit!!! Thanks for the heads up! I'll make sure I won't do that again or I'll surely go to hell!'

Just be a 'good' person in order to make the world and your surroundings a better place. Don't do it for some 'God' and don't do it just so you can get into 'Heaven' or anything like that. Just be a good person cause you have respect and values etc.
You don't need 'religion' to be a good person. Be your own 'God', your own judge and jury.

Anyway, I think we've had this discussion many many times now. I know people will just stick to what they believe in, and we'll just end up in an endless battle of words and wits and people will get upset and offended etc etc, so I'll stop now. :crossedlips:

I don't believe anybody has been offended here as yet? As long as the discussion is respectful and open, it shouldn't be a problem. Good topic to discuss.

Following what I said earlier, regardless though if you call yourself Christian or Buddhist or whatever, the way I think now is, that I should try to be the best person I can be, for myself, and for others around me, in this life as it is.. people might have theories but nobody can really know what happens after we die.. in keeping with a religious perspective i suppose, i think that whatever effort i make now is the most important, and whatever happens after death, whichever answer is right, i still did what I could in this life and this existance to affect myself and those around me

[Dai Marlo]

From what I heard and read, a lot of denominations have diluted their doctrines to nothingness in the name of "modernization" and "trendiness." Mainly, they sold out in order to fill the pews. For anyone wondering, I was raised Lutheran but not following any particular religion right now.

I don't think they have sold out so much as changed with the times.

Nobody was wondering but I am a non-militant atheist. Although I am thinking about converting to Wiccan just so I can have some cool/weird people with which to hang out. Besides, goth chicks are hot. They are mostly wiccans, right?

[Poelie]

I was raised a Catholic but I no longer believe in religion or God. One of the problems is, as stated in the first post, that every religion is the only true religion, thereby excluding the benefits of other beliefs.
Finding your own way in life, without committing to one beliefsystem, is not easy but I'd rather "love my neighbor" because I want to than because my religion tells me to.
My old history teacher said, to be on the safe side, pray as follows: "Oh God, if you exist and if you can please save my soul if I have one."

[massa_yoda]

Anyway, I think we've had this discussion many many times now. I know people will just stick to what they believe in, and we'll just end up in an endless battle of words and wits and people will get upset and offended etc etc, so I'll stop now. :crossedlips:

Yet you still felt you needed to put forth your 'theory' as the one truth and offend everyone that believes in God once more. What was the point of that? I liked the Ali quote, though. Very nice.

[kungfusamurai]

I'm not religious, but I am familiar with the names of the deities of various religions. I thought it was interesting that it was pointed out that every culture's god has the 'AH' sound in the name. Think about it - Buddah, Krishna, Yahweh, Allah, even the word 'God' has that sound.

KFS

[Cesare]

You kidding?
Hospodin, Gospodi, Bůh, Boh, Gott, Dumnezeu... Where's the "ah" sound in those...? Heck. Even "god", when pronounced with British accent, is quite devoid of "ah"s... :neutral: And I've neglected to mention gods from polytheist pantheons...:-]

[bamboo spear]

Some of the schools of Buddhism are so incredibly different that they're practically not even the same religion. I mean, Catholics and Lutherans and Baptists are different, and Sunni and Shi'ite are different, but at the end of the day, the religion is pretty much the same thing. But if you take a Japanese Zen Buddhist, a Japanese Shingon priest, and Ch'an (Zen) Buddhist from China, a Korean Buddhist, a Mahayanna Buddhist from Vietnam and a Vajrayana Buddhist from Tibet and have them compare notes, you'll have some radically different outlooks - some will have a pantheon of Chinese Taoist gods, some will be ingrained with Japanese Shinto mythology and pantheism, some will have exhaustive texts and sutras, some will solely stress meditation, some will be blended with Hinduism, etc.

So it's hard to really say, "What is Buddism?" because, from Burma to San Francisco, you'll get all kinds of responses. That being said, I'm Catholic but have been interested in Mikkyo and esoteric Buddhism since the early 90's when I started martial arts. I have several Buddhas in my house, as well as Asian art depicting Japanese gods and Chinese Immortals. I meditate in front of the Buddha on occassion, meditate before training, pray to the Christian God, and don't have any personal problems with it.

[kungfusamurai]

You kidding?
Hospodin, Gospodi, Bůh, Boh, Gott, Dumnezeu... Where's the "ah" sound in those...? Heck. Even "god", when pronounced with British accent, is quite devoid of "ah"s... :neutral: And I've neglected to mention gods from polytheist pantheons...:-]

You clearly know more about god names than I do. What religions are those? No need to get all worked up over it. I just said I heard it mentioned somewhere and I thought about the ones I knew and saw the correlation. I'm not trying to play god. :)

KFS

[Cesare]

I'm definitely no expert on religion, but your remark struck me as somewhat funny - esp. your mention of the word "God"...;)

(The words I mentioned are merely the words for "God" in various indo-european languages - though some of them can be ethymologically traced back to words denoting "lord" or something of the sort.)

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

God is an imaginary friend for grown ups!

[massa_yoda]

God is an imaginary friend for grown ups!

Actually, i would argue that the "imaginary friend for grown ups" today is the philosophy of Not God. Today's culture is very jaded toawrds the idea of God and people are tired of being preached at and judged by others. Not God gives comfort to certain people, just as belief in God does the same for other people. It's a belief, a system, just like theism.

[Yi-Long]

Actually, i would argue that the "imaginary friend for grown ups" today is the philosophy of Not God. Today's culture is very jaded toawrds the idea of God and people are tired of being preached at and judged by others. Not God gives comfort to certain people, just as belief in God does the same for other people. It's a belief, a system, just like theism.

BS. God didn't create anything. Man created God. Nothing more nothing less. And many people choose to belief in 'God'.

As a concept, I'm perfectly fine with people 'believing' in 'God' if it helps them in their life and if it helps them be a better person and if it gives them the answers they need.

With people pretending 'God' is actually a supreme being that exists and created this world and it's inhabitants, believing that everyone who doesn't embrace 'their God' as 'The God' will burn for eternity in Hell, I kinda just shake my head in amazement...

Listen, people can believe whatever they want. Just don't get offended when people rightly say it's BS. Either accept that there is absolutely no proof what-so-ever that there is, or ever was, a 'God', or cough up that proof.
cause as long as there is no proof whatsoever, it's just a fairytale, a fable, a fantasy, made up many many years ago to answer the questions no-one knew the answers to, in order to get people together, get power over those people, get them to behave and fight your battles for you, etc etc.

I like how religious people claim 'God' created 'intelligent life'(!) I like the contradiction in that :nerd:

[Cesare]

Yi-Long: Just like there ain't any proof that there is a God, there ain't any proof that there's none.
No person out there is obliged to accept your outlook or "cough up proofs" to convince you. You're entitled to believe whatever you will but I can't blame massa_yoda for finding a fault with your preaching...:angel:
In other words - with that "cough up proof or admit you're gullible/dogmatic idiots" rhetoric of yours, what makes you think you're any better than people who say "if you don't embrace God, you'll go to hell"...?

[Yi-Long]

Yi-Long: Just like there ain't any proof that there is a God, there ain't any proof that there's none.
No person out there is obliged to accept your outlook or "cough up proofs" to convince you. You're entitled to believe whatever you will but I can't blame massa_yoda for finding a fault with your preaching...:angel:
In other words - with that "cough up proof or admit you're gullible/dogmatic idiots" rhetoric of yours, what makes you think you're any better than people who say "if you don't embrace God, you'll go to hell"...?

Just because there 'is no proof that there is no 'God', doesn't mean it's BS to say 'there most probably is no God'. Quite the contrary in fact.

But I guess all you religious people also believe in a gay pink bunnyrabbit that created the Moon. Why not!? There's no proof that a pink gay bunny rabbit DIDN'T create the moon, so sure it can't be BS!?

Ow wait(!)

I'm not the one saying that God exists. Religious people say that. So if he exists, you need to back that up with something.
The reason I, and many others believe he doesn't exist, is because there is no proof whatsoever that he does exist. And you can't 'proof'' the non-existence of something that doesn't exist.

[KyFi]

Just because there 'is no proof that there is no 'God', doesn't mean it's BS to say 'there most probably is no God'. Quite the contrary in fact.

But I guess all you religious people also believe in a gay pink bunnyrabbit that created the Moon. Why not!? There's no proof that a pink gay bunny rabbit DIDN'T create the moon, so sure it can't be BS!?

Ow wait(!)

I'm not the one saying that God exists. Religious people say that. So if he exists, you need to back that up with something.
The reason I, and many others believe he doesn't exist, is because there is no proof whatsoever that he does exist. And you can't 'proof'' the non-existence of something that doesn't exist.

Prove that a man loves his wife. Because he treats her kindly and affectionately? Heck, I treat my coworkers nicely. Because they have sex? People don't need to be in love to have sex. Because they live and share their lives together? You don't need to be in love to do that. So the love between a man and a woman, something central to human existence, can't be scientifically proven. A purely materialistic world view is an incredibly shallow, narrow and closed-minded view of the universe, IMO, and does a very poor job of explaining the reality of the human condition. If people are atheists, fine, but the idea that atheists "only believe in things that can be scientifically proven" is a complete sham.

[silver hermit]

But I guess all you religious people also believe in a gay pink bunnyrabbit that created the Moon. Why not!? There's no proof that a pink gay bunny rabbit DIDN'T create the moon, so sure it can't be BS!?


we are going to have to agree to disagree gay pink bunny rabbits are against my religion

[Yi-Long]

Prove that a man loves his wife. Because he treats her kindly and affectionately? Heck, I treat my coworkers nicely. Because they have sex? People don't need to be in love to have sex. Because they live and share their lives together? You don't need to be in love to do that. So the love between a man and a woman, something central to human existence, can't be scientifically proven. A purely materialistic world view is an incredibly shallow, narrow and closed-minded view of the universe, IMO, and does a very poor job of explaining the reality of the human condition. If people are atheists, fine, but the idea that atheists "only believe in things that can be scientifically proven" is a complete sham.

I like where you're trying to take this discussion, but it's kind of a mute argument.
Love IS real. So is sex. Love isn't needed to have sex. Sex isn't needed to love. Regardless both exist and 99% of the people have 'experienced some form of love and/or sex.

It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic at hand though, which is about religion, and about the existence of a 'God', for which there is no proof whatsoever. People choose to believe in it, for a variety of reasons. Truth isn't one of them.

[Yi-Long]

we are going to have to agree to disagree gay pink bunny rabbits are against my religion

What if my gay pink bunny rabbit God created your God!?

[KyFi]

Love IS real.


Again, you're not capable of proving that love is real (capitalizing the word "IS" is not exactly a mathematical proof). So again, I'm just pointing out the fact that you most certainly believe in things that you can't prove, and indeed they're central to your life. So, the idea that, in contrast to religious people, atheists have a worldview whereby they have proof for their most cherished beliefs is, demonstrably, false.

[massa_yoda]

Listen, people can believe whatever they want. Just don't get offended when people rightly say it's BS. Either accept that there is absolutely no proof what-so-ever that there is, or ever was, a 'God', or cough up that proof.
cause as long as there is no proof whatsoever, it's just a fairytale, a fable, a fantasy, made up many many years ago to answer the questions no-one knew the answers to, in order to get people together, get power over those people, get them to behave and fight your battles for you, etc etc.

I like how religious people claim 'God' created 'intelligent life'(!) I like the contradiction in that :nerd:

You see, this is your problem, you say people can believe in whatever, but then you go on saying it's BS and rant about it being a fairytale forever. You obviously either 1) want to tick people off or 2) had some serious problems with religion in your past and you are just an angry person. Either way, here ya go. My turn to rant. My turn to be long-winded and annoying. Enjoy the following.

I find the arrogance in your position troubling. Here you are, a speck on a dot somewhere in the universe saying you have a complete knowledge and understanding of how the entire universe works in order to dismiss the concept of God. You must know things scientists can only dream of! Like understanding how the laws of physics even exist, what holds everything together, why the big bang happened. How does it feel being such a freaking genius?

Look you and your cohort WhiteCrane seem to be proponents of the "Family Guy" theory. Atheists are automatically geniuses and Theists are automatically backward-thinking morons who have book burnings and live in the 50s. On the contrary, there are just as many blind atheists in the world as blind theists. People who choose to believe in no God out of irrational, emotion-based thinking, like their parents were really strict religious jerks, or they had a bad experience in their church, or they think church history is bad....therefore God isn't real? Therefore Jesus didn't rise from the dead 2000 years ago? I'm sick of people who think they have religion figured out because they watched "The Da Vinci Code" or Bill Maher's "Religulous".

You want evidence? There is plenty, you just need to look. I tell people, if you're gonna be an atheist, fine, but at least be a smart atheist. Do research, not just from one-sided sources, but books and articles that are biased on both sides. After reading "The God Delusion" for example try reading C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity". Try not just looking at religious texts, but understanding them. The historical context, the cultural context, the original language in which they were written, and also the author's intent for each book. Taking one random verse out of the bible and calling the whole thing bad is not research.

Here's the bottom line: If you seek God, you will find Him. Period. The evidences will be there in the revelation, the miracles, the scriptures that back it up. Scriptures that still stand the test of time today. However, if you are hell-bent in believing there is no God, then you will not find God. Believing in God requires an open-mind and one thing you think is conter-intuitive to belief in the irrational:

Intelligence.

[Yi-Long]

Again, you're not capable of proving that love is real (capitalizing the word "IS" is not exactly a mathematical proof). So again, I'm just pointing out the fact that you most certainly believe in things that you can't prove, and indeed they're central to your life. So, the idea that, in contrast to religious people, atheists have a worldview whereby they have proof for their most cherished beliefs is, demonstrably, false.

Love is an emotion. Just like hate, jealousy, envy, etc.

These are trademarks that religious people say that God gave to humans, to seperate us from the animals.
So to flip everything around on you, when you say 'love doesn't exist', are you saying humans are no different from the animals? Are you saying God 'failed' in giving us these human traits?


So in your opinion, love does not exist? Ofcourse you know it does. You've probably felt it and experienced it, either on the giving or on the receiving end. Probably both ends.
So the reason you bring it into the discussion is to steer the 'proof-question' away from 'God', which is understandable cause you know you have no valid answer for that.

[Cesare]

Yi-Long: I'm moderately religious with strong leanings towards pantheism, animism and Neil Gaiman's Sandman(:xd:), but I guess it's quite safe to say that I'm an agnostic. So I'm not sure I really count among those "you religious people" that you refer to. I'm not saying that God 100% exists. I'm saying God (or something to that effect or something vaguely similar) just as well might exist - and that there's no way of proving its existence or non-existence. And unless someone's trying to shove their beliefs down my throat, let them believe whatever they will, be they atheists, deists, taoists, buddhist, muslims, satanists, christians or whatever the hell they please.

Your tone comes very close to my idea of "other people shoving their beliefs down my throat". By your insistence on either providing some sort of positivisic proof or admitting defeat, you're forcing upon me a paradigm and a mode of thought that I'm not comfortable with. In my book, there's very little difference between your insistence that you're - of course - right and other people's insistence that the likes of you are - of course - wrong and will burn in hell (and my insistence that I am - of course - somehow "righter" that both atheists and religious people - which is the inevitable trap that I always find myself in - ironic, isn't it :angel:). To sum it up - I don't care if you're an atheist, I just don't like your tone.

And I actually kind of like the idea of pink gay rabbit creating the moon - though moon to me looks more like an invention of someone keen on royal blue. :-}
Pink gay rabbit creating God is an idea I like even better...:xd:

[Yi-Long]

You see, this is your problem, you say people can believe in whatever, but then you go on saying it's BS and rant about it being a fairytale forever. You obviously either 1) want to tick people off or 2) had some serious problems with religion in your past and you are just an angry person. Either way, here ya go. My turn to rant. My turn to be long-winded and annoying. Enjoy the following.

That wasn't my intention, but apparently whenever someone disagrees with religion it is for the main purpose to tick people off. Ofcourse, pretending there is a God who created everything without backing it up with anything, and then claiming everyone who says otherwise or dares to question that, is an arrogant dick, is obviously perfectly OK(!)

I find the arrogance in your position troubling. Here you are, a speck on a dot somewhere in the universe saying you have a complete knowledge and understanding of how the entire universe works in order to dismiss the concept of God.

Where did I say I pretend to know everything? Maybe you could look into a mirror instead of into your bible!? I never said I know where this all came from, and where it will all lead to, what purpose it all has (if any), or what else is out there. Quite the contrary: I don't know any of that stuff. And neither do you. So quit pretending you DO know by saying it was all created by 'God'.

You must know things scientists can only dream of! Like understanding how the laws of physics even exist, what holds everything together, why the big bang happened. How does it feel being such a freaking genius?

...and pretending some 'God' is responsible for everything is better how!?

Look you and your cohort WhiteCrane seem to be proponents of the "Family Guy" theory. Atheists are automatically geniuses and Theists are automatically backward-thinking morons who have book burnings and live in the 50s. On the contrary, there are just as many blind atheists in the world as blind theists. People who choose to believe in no God out of irrational, emotion-based thinking, like their parents were really strict religious jerks, or they had a bad experience in their church, or they think church history is bad....therefore God isn't real? Therefore Jesus didn't rise from the dead 2000 years ago? I'm sick of people who think they have religion figured out because they watched "The Da Vinci Code" or Bill Maher's "Religulous".

The reason I don't believe in a God is because no-one has ever been able to validly argue the existence of God. It's not because of Bill maher, or because of Family Guy or because of strict parents. It's just rational thinking.
Why would I believe in something just because a whole bunch of people believe in 'something', Without there actually being a good reason to do so. Tell me. Maybe you can convert me.

You want evidence? There is plenty, you just need to look. I tell people, if you're gonna be an atheist, fine, but at least be a smart atheist. Do research, not just from one-sided sources, but books and articles that are biased on both sides. After reading "The God Delusion" for example try reading C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity". Try not just looking at religious texts, but understanding them. The historical context, the cultural context, the original language in which they were written, and also the author's intent for each book. Taking one random verse out of the bible and calling the whole thing bad is not research.

Here's the bottom line: If you seek God, you will find Him. Period. The evidences will be there in the revelation, the miracles, the scriptures that back it up. Scriptures that still stand the test of time today. However, if you are hell-bent in believing there is no God, then you will not find God. Believing in God requires an open-mind and one thing you think is conter-intuitive to belief in the irrational:

Intelligence.

If you actually had the open mind you speak of, maybe you wouldn't feel offended or insulted whenever someone questions your beliefs.

You belief in God? Fine. If it makes you a better person for it, even better. I'm not saying religion is wrong (it CAN be, but for many it's also something that adds to their life), but don't demand that everyone else takes your fairytales seriously.

You talk about atheists insulting religious people? That's a joke. Throughout history, it's been mostly the non-believers who have gotten the raw end of the deal in society, and who have had to deal with the BS religion throws upon society.
You believe in a fairytale and demands that everyone will act like that's perfectly normal. It's not normal. It's no different from believing in the toothfairy or easter-bunny, but at least those two don't promise an eternity burning in hell when you don't take them seriously...

You talk about reading books!? What book is there that has proof there was a God that created us!? Please enlighten me, cause it seems CNN failed to mention that breaking news...

You talk about 'Finding God'. What's that? The sequel to Finding Nemo!? Is God playing hide-and-seek!? Let me tell you now, the only reason you 'find' God is you WANT there to be a God. you're scared shitless if you'd find out everything that you were told, taught and believe in, is just something a bunch of people in the old days made up to have an influence on people. To have power over them. To scare them into uniting and behaving.

I'm an atheist. I'm not saying I'm 100% sure there is NO God. I'm saying the chances of there being a 'God', as described in the bible or any other holy book, are REMOTELY slim.

For all we know, the whole universe is just a living matter, which exists in it's own universe, and our planets and suns and everything else are just 'bacteria', 'cells', whatever...that live inside it.

We don't know. Stop pretending you do know. Stop expecting everyone else to play along with you're made-up BS that you do know. You. Don't. Know. Neither do I. So what!?

Will we find out after we die? We don't know. Will we return as new-born babies? We don't know! Will we return as goldfish? We don't know! Will we roam the planet as ghosts? We don't know! Will we become stars in the sky!? We don't know. Will we go to heaven or hell!? We don't know!

Most likely, we just stop to exist. Not a nice comforting thought, I agree, but why pretend to know that we do know!?

[Yi-Long]

Yi-Long: I'm moderately religious with strong leanings towards pantheism, animism and Neil Gaiman's Sandman(:xd:), but I guess it's quite safe to say that I'm an agnostic. So I'm not sure I really count among those "you religious people" that you refer to. I'm not saying that God 100% exists. I'm saying God (or something to that effect or something vaguely similar) just as well might exist - and that there's no way of proving its existence or non-existence. And unless someone's trying to shove their beliefs down my throat, let them believe whatever they will, be they atheists, deists, taoists, buddhist, muslims, satanists, christians or whatever the hell they please.

Your tone comes very close to my idea of "other people shoving their beliefs down my throat". By your insistence on either providing some sort of positivisic proof or admitting defeat, you're forcing upon me a paradigm and a mode of thought that I'm not comfortable with. In my book, there's very little difference between your insistence that you're - of course - right and other people's insistence that the likes of you are - of course - wrong and will burn in hell (and my insistence that I am - of course - somehow "righter" that both atheists and religious people - which is the inevitable trap that I always find myself in - ironic, isn't it :angel:). To sum it up - I don't care if you're an atheist, I just don't like your tone.

And I actually kind of like the idea of pink gay rabbit creating the moon - though moon to me looks more like an invention of someone keen on royal blue. :-}
Pink gay rabbit creating God is an idea I like even better...:xd:

I'm not trying to shove my ideas down anyone's throat. I'm reacting to people getting overly offended when I dont agree with them, and question why they get so offended for me not swallowing the stuff someone in the past once made up and for which there is no proof.

You believe in 'something', which is perfectly fine. It makes much more sense than believing in the 'biblical' God, or any other described God, cause basically 'somethingism' is about believing there was 'some kind of 'something' who/which is responsible for all this, but obviously we don't know what it actually was.

The simple truth is, we don't know. There once was a big bang, but even knowing that doesn't answer the question how, what where, when, and most importantly why!?
And what was there before the Big Bang!? Did 'God' create the Big bang? Did my Gay Pink Bunny Rabbit create the Big Bang!? Did God try to shoot my gay Pink Bunny Rabbit, Miss, and cause the Big Bang!? We just don't know.

Again, I'm not shoving my beliefs down anyone's throat, but just like everyone else has the right to question the existence of Gay Pink Bunny Rabbit (and rightly so, cause I made him up...), so do I have the right to openly question the existence of 'God', without people automatically getting offended by it. I back up my views with arguments and ask the same from those who claim otherwise...

[KyFi]

Love is an emotion. Just like hate, jealousy, envy, etc.

These are trademarks that religious people say that God gave to humans, to seperate us from the animals.
So to flip everything around on you, when you say 'love doesn't exist', are you saying humans are no different from the animals? Are you saying God 'failed' in giving us these human traits?


So in your opinion, love does not exist? Ofcourse you know it does. You've probably felt it and experienced it, either on the giving or on the receiving end. Probably both ends.
So the reason you bring it into the discussion is to steer the 'proof-question' away from 'God', which is understandable cause you know you have no valid answer for that.

No, of course I believe in love, even though its existence can't be proven. Just like you do. I'm simply establishing the indisputable fact that ALL of us believe in very important things for which we have no scientific proof----and the idea that science and the material world view explian the reality of the human condition is simply not true.

[KyFi]

for example try reading C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity". .

Yep, that was the biggie for me. Lewis' logic is razor-sharp, and I enjoy all of his writings. Have you read GK Chesterton's "Orthodoxy"? I just got done that one----Chesterton was a big influence on Lewis, and you can see why after reading this one.

[Cesare]

The simple truth is, we don't know. There once was a big bang, but even knowing that doesn't answer the question how, what where, when, and most importantly why!?
And what was there before the Big Bang!? Did 'God' create the Big bang? Did my Gay Pink Bunny Rabbit create the Big Bang!? Did God try to shoot my gay Pink Bunny Rabbit, Miss, and cause the Big Bang!? We just don't know.


The way I see it, we don't even *know* there was a big bang. It seems very, very, very, very plausible, all evidence seems to fit - but it's not like we were there to watch the spectacle...:-)
Anyway.
The problem is that the kind of proof you require can't be given. That's not how faith works. That's how contemporary science works. They're two totally different paradigms that can quite peacefully and functionally co-exist but won't meet - scientific/positivist approach makes no sense in the realm of faith, just like faith won't get you anywhere in science. They're two ways at looking at the world around you and it's perfectly possible to manage both.
If you insist that the positivist paradigm is somehow superior to the other, I'll have to disagree...;-)

BTW - it's not non-believers in God/gods who get the raw end of the deal in society. It's non-believers/non-conformists in general - those who defy the predominant paradigms/systems of their era. Blaming religion for that is unfair. That's how society works and that's how people think, so blame them...;-) Do away with religion and there will be something else to persecute people for.

As for people getting offended - I suppose it's not your questioning of the concept of God that ticks them off but your implicit hint that they're stupid/unreasonable if they don't... People get offended when you suggest they're intellectually challenged, so don't be too surprised...;-)
"prove it or admit it's fairy-tale/BS" is not the best way to start discussion. You're of course entitled to it, but don't be offended when people take offense...:-) Even attempting to give you a proof would mean conforming to your perspective; in a way - your approach and the approach along the lines of "you don't see him because you've chosen not to" are very similar. "Prove he exists" and "prove he doesn't" are - to me - pretty much like two edges of one sword. They work on the same principle - and there's no way of winning either of those arguments...

PS: Sorry for using the word "paradigm" so much. It happens to be a favorite of mine and I've got this bad habit of using it whenever the occasion arises...:neutral: ;-)

[massa_yoda]

I'm an atheist. I'm not saying I'm 100% sure there is NO God. I'm saying the chances of there being a 'God', as described in the bible or any other holy book, are REMOTELY slim.

See, if you would have just said this to start with there would have been no temper tantrums. This is really what i wanted to hear, to admit you aren't 100%, because you were coming off like you knew for sure that you were right before. Did you really not notice that? Everyone else has!:tongue:

As far as me getting offended, try and put yourself in my shoes for a minute. I mean you can ignore it for a while, but when someone is just blatantly making fun of your beliefs like that. Not just disagreeing, but trying to rip them down, how would you react?

Oh and the literature i mentioned wasn't meant to prove God, these are things that help with the journey. Philosophical musings, things that can make you think about the world differently. They help faith. God isn't something i take lightly or believe in blindly, i've studies scripture and other documents that help back up my faith. You may think Religious authors aren't intelligent or don't think hard about things, but you'd be surprised.

[lillippa328]

I'm not trying to shove my ideas down anyone's throat. I'm reacting to people getting overly offended when I dont agree with them, and question why they get so offended for me not swallowing the stuff someone in the past once made up and for which there is no proof.

You believe in 'something', which is perfectly fine. It makes much more sense than believing in the 'biblical' God, or any other described God, cause basically 'somethingism' is about believing there was 'some kind of 'something' who/which is responsible for all this, but obviously we don't know what it actually was.

The simple truth is, we don't know. There once was a big bang, but even knowing that doesn't answer the question how, what where, when, and most importantly why!?
And what was there before the Big Bang!? Did 'God' create the Big bang? Did my Gay Pink Bunny Rabbit create the Big Bang!? Did God try to shoot my gay Pink Bunny Rabbit, Miss, and cause the Big Bang!? We just don't know.

Again, I'm not shoving my beliefs down anyone's throat, but just like everyone else has the right to question the existence of Gay Pink Bunny Rabbit (and rightly so, cause I made him up...), so do I have the right to openly question the existence of 'God', without people automatically getting offended by it. I back up my views with arguments and ask the same from those who claim otherwise...



its ok if you dont want to take a belief in God or anything for that matter. Thats perfectly fine, but just respect other peoples faith and religions, its that simple. You dont have to be so agressive with expressing your dis-belief in God

[Poelie]

"If you seek God you will find Him": this is true.
"Believing in God requires an open mind" is not true. An open mind asks questions to which there are or are not answers.
I do not know where my consciousness comes from, I don't know why we're on this earth or what happens when we die. I believe these are some of the questions that can stimulate people to find a religion. I try to accept that the definitive answers to these questions, however important they are to me, are not to be found. That is not easy, I can tell you: I'd rather commit to a God or a belief system, but there is so much to choose from, there are so many and they are all true!
If you have found God and/or a religion you will probably have found answers that satisfy you.
This can be a good thing, as long is it leaves room for other religions and non-believers. As a non-believer I think there is room for all of us.
Oh and I, as a relapsed Catholic who admits to still holding a grudge against that religion, do not claim to have a totally open mind. I wish!

[massa_yoda]

Yep, that was the biggie for me. Lewis' logic is razor-sharp, and I enjoy all of his writings. Have you read GK Chesterton's "Orthodoxy"? I just got done that one----Chesterton was a big influence on Lewis, and you can see why after reading this one.

I haven't read that, but sounds interesting. I'll check it out. Thanks.

[Tosh]

I have this dressor I decorate in all Chinese decorations, dragons, tigers, ect in my room...my question is, what exactly does buddha represent? If im catholic, would having a small buddha statue be blasphemous? Do their idea's conflict strongly enough?

Only you can make that decision, as I'm sure you know it can be a touchy subject, everyone will have drastically different opinions about it. I myself wouldn't be so conflicted about it as the underlining meaning of most major religions are the same.

Buddha was a man and buddhism can be considered an ideology, Buddhist also are very conforming to other religions and would not have a problem with you being another faith and having a Buddha statue. The universe is one:wink:

[VenomsFan]

I have this dressor I decorate in all Chinese decorations, dragons, tigers, ect in my room...my question is, what exactly does buddha represent? If im catholic, would having a small buddha statue be blasphemous? Do their idea's conflict strongly enough?

Oh there IS proof. Experience suggests that even with proof, people will still believe what they want. But I'll bite, Yi Long. Check out the first 3 minutes of this video, which chronicles scientists, archelogists and atheists research proving the Bible to be correct and true to what it says:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG3QsisQrkc

But to the original post questioned. Know your Bible. The first commandment "Though shall have no other gods before me" applies. But I take it as anything you "worship" more than God. Kung Fu movies, girlfriends, hobbies, whatever

I also find it fitting to quote Jesus when he said "I AM the way, the truth and the light. No one can enter heaven except through me"

Know what you believe in, know your Bible, that is the foundation of your Christian belief, lillippa328. I'd also like to mention that the Catholic faith is a little blasphemous themselves honoring saints and nuns with idols, which is a big no-no according to their own doctrine.

[WuxiaFan]

But to the original post questioned. Know your Bible. The first commandment "Though shall have no other gods before me" applies. But I take it as anything you "worship" more than God. Kung Fu movies, girlfriends, hobbies, whatever

I also find it fitting to quote Jesus when he said "I AM the way, the truth and the light. No one can enter heaven except through me"

Know what you believe in, know your Bible, that is the foundation of your Christian belief, lillippa328. I'd also like to mention that the Catholic faith is a little blasphemous themselves honoring saints and nuns with idols, which is a big no-no according to their own doctrine.

VenomsFan - Agree with you on your two statements above. However, you are not correct about the Catholic faith and the communion of saints. Catholics are not being blasphemous by honoring the Saints. This is often a misconception in the Christian community. Catholics pray to Saints to intercede on our behalf to God. We do not pray directly to Saints in place of God. That would then be blasphemous and violate the First Commandment.

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

There is only ONE god........ and his name is Hwang Jang Lee :tongue:

[lillippa328]

Oh there IS proof. Experience suggests that even with proof, people will still believe what they want. But I'll bite, Yi Long. Check out the first 3 minutes of this video, which chronicles scientists, archelogists and atheists research proving the Bible to be correct and true to what it says:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG3QsisQrkc

But to the original post questioned. Know your Bible. The first commandment "Though shall have no other gods before me" applies. But I take it as anything you "worship" more than God. Kung Fu movies, girlfriends, hobbies, whatever

I also find it fitting to quote Jesus when he said "I AM the way, the truth and the light. No one can enter heaven except through me"

Know what you believe in, know your Bible, that is the foundation of your Christian belief, lillippa328. I'd also like to mention that the Catholic faith is a little blasphemous themselves honoring saints and nuns with idols, which is a big no-no according to their own doctrine.


how is honoring saints wrong? catholics have always honored saints more than anybody

[Cesare]

I agree that Catholicism has a mild flavor of idolatry to it - which is one of the reasons why - of all the Christian denominations - I've always liked it best. And it's wonderfully flexible and fluid. Just look at all the local traditions all over the globe that came into being when Catholics and locals met and exchanged ideas...:xd: And now I have in mind not just Christian traditions but also hybrids like voodoo...:wink: Catholicism has style and flavor - it's more fun...
I'm a non-believer, so my criteria in this particular case have more to do with aesthetics than religion. (Though I admit Catholics get bonus points for some of their doctrines... I'm a great fan of purgatory, for example...)

Overall - I'm not a Christian and probably will never identify with many of the ideas crucial to the religion as such. But Catholic faith is the one I feel most at ease and in tune with.

VenomsFan: As for the saints - what WuxiaFan said.

[lillippa328]

VenomsFan - Agree with you on your two statements above. However, you are not correct about the Catholic faith and the communion of saints. Catholics are not being blasphemous by honoring the Saints. This is often a misconception in the Christian community. Catholics pray to Saints to intercede on our behalf to God. We do not pray directly to Saints in place of God. That would then be blasphemous and violate the First Commandment.



yes...Saints are almost our Monks in a sorta way....

[kaleyboy]

Boy, religion and kung fu. Not the best mixture - I wouldn't go near this topic with barge pole. I hope it doesn't get messy. . .

[WuxiaFan]

Boy, religion and kung fu. Not the best mixture - I wouldn't go near this topic with barge pole. I hope it doesn't get messy. . .

It's already gotten messy. Start from the beginning of the thread and you'll see. It's interesting to read what's been posted.

[HyperDrive]

Boy, religion and kung fu. Not the best mixture - I wouldn't go near this topic with barge pole. I hope it doesn't get messy. . .

But but but Buddha's Palm and Buddhist monk San Te... :tongue:

Anyways, some Catholic saints are monks such as Bede; Bernard, creator of the Cistercian order; and of cource the man who started the whole western monastic tradition, Benedict but not all.