Jackie Chan says he doesn’t like MMA

NNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! NOT JACKIE CHAN! I cn't believe my favorite fighter hates MMA and for the wrong reasons too.

Stupid ....!
He is not a real martial artist.

Why do anyone "really" care what Jackie says?

He is just stating a opinion that he do not like something, what is the problem?

Jackie Chan is the Man!

Not sure what his statement has to do with not having groundwork in his choreography. All Jackie is saying is that he doesn't want to see the Martial Arts becoming a blood sport. He's saying that they need to maintain a level of respect that doesn't involve continuing to hit your opponent in the face when they're already down. Though not all fighters do this, many do. It just doesn't look or feel right. Yes, there are villains everywhere and in everything, but shouldn't we try to grow beyond this? As a respected martial artist, who helped to pave the way for many of us, he has a right to his opinion.

But here's the thing - ground and pound, objectively speaking, does not make you a villain. Especially when there's a lot of things the one on the bottom can still do to defend himself.

To Yoda,
Actually, I can't wait for the Nostalgia Critic to review some of Jackie's American movies (Rush Hour 2 or The Tuxedo would be awesome for that.) This portion of his review of Junior really reflects my feelings about 90% of his American movies and 90% of American martial arts movies: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ2j8yxu-rc

To Yoda
I never did and never would say that Jujitsu is a joke, and if I gave that impression, I apologize. I respect all fighting styles, and I've experienced Jujitsu firsthand, so I know it's no bogus martial art. I'm a firm believer in the saying that it's the warrior, not the weapon that matters.
Also, let me clarify some thing about the successor issue. Tony is the only one I'd really compare to Jackie, because like Jackie, his choreography tends to be very stunt-oriented, like Jackie. Scott and Donnie, like Jet, are more about pure martial arts. Tom Yum Goong was like a throwback to Jackie's hey day, and it featured so many other rising stars like Johnny Nguyen. Actually, I agree that Hong Kong's glory day are largely behind them and the Shaw Brothers level of awesomeness is a thing of the past. Personally, I'm banking on Vietnam and Thailand filling that void, and I can't wait to see Bay Rong.
And let me tell about what I think of how Hollywood has treated Jackie and martial arts altogether. To me, for every truly great martial arts film Hollywood has put out, Hong Kong has easily made a dozen. To me, the only Jackie Chan movies from Hollywood that are as good as his Hong Kong work are the Shanghai flicks and The Forbidden Kingdom. I particularly like the latter, because the kid played by Michael Angarano reminded me so much of myself as a kid growing up, learning martial arts and watching kung fu movies voraciously, and it also found a nice middle-ground between wire fu and authentic martial arts.
And you know what really gets me about The Spy Next Door? I just took my mother and my sister to see it last weekend (we've been doing alot of that sort of thing together lately, as my father's in Afghanistan right now) , and I had already seen the trailer that had bits of The Tuxedo (aka The Worst Jackie Chan Movie of All Time!!!!) in it, but then I saw the opening credits, and they actually had the BALLS to put snippets from Armour of God 2: Operation Condor in the opening credits in some pathetic effort to tie this to what is nothing less than a classic. The NERVE of Hollywood to disrespect Jackie's career like that. It's the equivalent of The Spider-Man reboot (which I honestly hope never happens) having clips from the Raimi series in the opening credits.
I once read a review of The Tuxedo that sums up my feelings about Jackie Chan movies perfectly "Take Jackie out of Drunken Master, and you have completely different movie; take him out of The Tuxedo, and it's still The Tuxedo, only now it stars Rob Schneider." Same thing with The Spy Next Door; take out Jackie out, and it's the same movie, only now it stars Jon Stewart.
In all honestly, don't blame Jackie for the way that Hollywood has tried to butcher his career. I remember watching Brett Ratner being interviewed for Rush Hour 2, saying that America's don't have the patience for the kind of epic action scenes Jackie puts together in his sleep, so let's cut it down to a minute and a half and film it like The Blair Witch Project. Trust me, Jackie gets it, and he's expressed his frustration for Hollywood not letting him, for the most part, stage the kind of action that has made him the Evil Kineval of martial arts. Isaac Florentine is one of the few filmmakers in Hollywood who gets it and knows how to make you FEEL the martial arts, just like Jackie. UD2 and Ninja were outta this world awesome, and UD3 looks like it may end up being his and Scott's Bloodsport.

Wow... I need to add a correction to a HUGE typo in my previous post... If anyone read it, I stated, "They are all REAL life martial artists, unlike Jackie Chan and movie fighters, and MMA fighters prove their skills every day against resisting opponents."

Please ignore that... What I meant to write was, "... Unlike movie martial artists like Jackie Chan that don't practice their techniques daily against resisting opponents and other movie fighters, and MMA fighters prove..."

Please read it with this correction and not with the original, cited content... I had implied with indiscretion that Jackie Chan was not a real martial artist. I only realized how absurd that sounded after I posted, and it is definitely NOT what I meant, trust me.

Sorry. :)

To darrinkemp:

I agree with everything you said! Hell, I am nowhere near a professional fighter myself, but I can respect those who are! They're the ones proving what moves work and what moves don't in a real life combat scenario!

I was simply debunking the idea that MMA contained no honor or skill because fights go to the ground and sometimes continue there... Surely you think that's absurd.

Are there MMA fighters that don't seem honorable? Sure... In Kung Fu Cinema there are villains that aren't as well! What am I going to do, not watch anymore KFflix? lol MMA has some douchebags, and MMA has some VERY honorable fighters as well...

There is no debate when it comes to what works in a real life self defense scenario... It either does work or it doesn't... And the only way to test this is to apply it in as close to a real life combat for survival as possible... Currently, there is only MMA in the US if you want to do it legally... It is the only tool we have to test what martial arts techniques (as well as in whose hands) are effective... I didn't say MMA was the only way to enjoy fighting as a hobby. Hell, there's no way I'd ever join MMA or even any legitimate striking art that spars! I don't like getting punched in the face! There are tons of martial arts rich with cultural value that are quite simply fun to do! I say we do them all if we like them!

All I said is that MMA demonstrates, for those professional fighters that dare (NOT ME!), what techniques are useful in real life self defense... Why deny them that? How immature to do so or call it a cafeteria brawl... Every martial art usually has a split between some that are useful and some that are not. MMA highlights the divide for many MA's and there's simply no arguing that. Even in Judo, there are a slim, few techniques even our sensei tells to not even think to try them in a self-defense situation. They are simply part of the traditional curriculum so we do them.

Again, my point is that to maintain that fighting that continues to the ground (as does in MMA) is dishonorable is something that can only spring from the mind of a person NOT really familiar with martial arts as they claim... MANY traditional martial arts train you in grappling, kicking or punching people on the floor, etc. Many TRADITIONAL ones to boot!

The REAL essence of martial arts is to improve your spirit and health through the training of techniques that AT ONE POINT WERE intended to use for saving your own life, even killing someone else in the process! If you're training or sparring, of course you're going to help your partner back up! Duh, but not if you were fighting for your life against an attacker! That's what an MMA competition tries to capture! Of course it will seem messy, especially to people that regularly don't see martial arts used in real combat! And if a martial art fails to address those scenarios, then it's NOT a martial art. Some should look up the definition of a martial art.

Personally, I hate MMA promoters, the announcers, the commentators, the fans, almost everything about it... But I don't have to recognize any of those things to see the talent in REAL-LIFE applicable martial arts like one can see in Fedor, Machida, Shogun, Hughes, Aoki, Penn, and all the other top MMA fighters that put their skills to the test with very little rules... They are all REAL life martial artists, unlike Jackie Chan and movie fighters, and MMA fighters prove their skills every day against resisting opponents.

Compliant partner-only martial arts = BULLSHIDO

Sorry if this offends someone, but it's the truth.

When we do randori or shiai in Judo, we're each trying to throw/pin/submit the other person with techniques we learn... And that involves injuries many times! And sometimes we're put to sleep or get an elbow jacked up or land on our head!

Some martial arts may be great for your health, teach you discipline, etc. but that doesn't mean it's good for defending yourself.

MMA has shown us which ones are, and to say that MMA fighters have no skill because they GRAPPLE is STUPID. That's what I contend and I believe we agree on that.

As has been said here, you don't have to like or wish to practice all martial arts, but to call the ultimate proving ground for them a cafeteria brawl shows that the speaker of such an opinion is completely UNFAMILIAR with how martial arts techniques really look like against a resisting opponent trying to beat your ass... It can seem ugly to the untrained eye, especially to people whose martial arts experience involves only watching films and doing flying kicks against stuffed animals in their parent's basement.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Not a single thing you wrote that I disagree with.

Well, except that I remember enjoying full contact sparring back when I was younger. I've largely stopped because both my wife and my employer think that I'm ugly enough as it is.

To Kent 108
(see previous comment)

That's just how I like you: speechless.

Wow... No appreciation for MMA...

MMA, which sprouted from ho-holds barred fighting, is the ONLY REAL WORLD test of a martial art and a martial artist right now done safely...

Sometimes it seems like a cafeteria fight? How do some of you think REAL LIFE fighting looks like? Like a perfectly choreographed movie fight?

lol

The REAL karate, Muay Thai, Western Boxing, and TKD fighters that actually FIGHT, NOT IN POINT-FIGHTING tournaments, end up in elite striking organizations like K-1 kickboxing for example... Where they cross-train in a variety of techniques to remain competitive... They are the elite, and look at their fights... Do the K-1 fights look perfectly choreographed movie fights? I think some here have seen too many movies and don't recognize the skills as displayed in a REAL life fight.

Honor and ground fighting... Yes, MMA mixes in grappling... Well, that means people are going to end up grappling too if they wish... In real life combat are you going to tell your opponent that he must release you from his grip? lol, In real life combat, anything might happen, and two people might end up on the floor, where boxing, karate, or other striking arts won't work... NHB is SUPPOSED to be a mimicking of real life combat... MMA is NHB but turned into a sport with more rules to protect the fighters (wearing gloves, rounds, etc.). MMA demonstrates what martial arts actually WORK against a NON-COMPLIANT partner that's actually resisting your techniques... As a result, many traditional martial arts were revealed to be "BULLSHIDO," especially alot of Eastern ones. And many grappling MARTIAL ARTS were shown to be effective.

Going to the ground is dishonorable? LOL, I have been a Judoka for many years... We must wear gi's, speak Japanese for our moves, bow to a portrait of Jigoro Kano before every class, and show tremendous honor... When we engage in ne-waza during the last 30 min., we are all on the ground rolling around for thirty minutes trying to pin and/or submit each other... Is this dishonorable? This a traditional martial art!!! That makes no sense... Plus, early Jujutsu such as Fusen Ryu or the Kosen Judo events of today in Japan fight ONLY on the ground... They even start on the ground... The early Japanese Jujutsu masters knew that REAL LIFE fights DO END UP ON THE GROUND, and there a combatant must do what he can to survive, pinning the opponent (to produce a blade and execute), breaking their limbs, or strangulating them to death...

That's real life fighting people... It doesn't look pretty sometimes like people dancing... And in MMA, if you're TRULY going to demonstrate a proving ground for what martial arts actually WORK IN REAL life, you have to allow grappling... Standing fighters up is stupid... Is a referee going to stand up a fighter in a real life fight on the street?

Judo, one of the most TRADITIONAL martial arts of Japan, ends up here (on the ground). WATCH (Olympics):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u41omoNO4U

WATCH (Japanese traditional instruction):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrTs5Ts0tIc

Is that dishonorable? No essence of martial arts there?


Plus in Shotokan Karate Kumite (full contact point fighting), you're SUPPOSED to attack a grounded opponent sometimes, punching an opponent on the floor before he can defend himself. This, in TRADITIONAL martial arts???

WATCH at 1:05:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrTs5Ts0tIc

What was that? In traditional Karate a fighter trying to backfist a grounded fighter and the fighter on the floor trying to upkick him??? Does this lack the essence of martial arts? Is this dishonorable?

Some of the comments here are very informative, but some here seem to have a fantasy-based perception of what martial arts look like in real life...

Also, you have every right to dislike MMA for its grappling, BUT GRAPPLING IS A VERY BIG PART OF TRADITIONAL MARTIAL ARTS. And in grappling tournaments, you're supposed to roll around on the ground... AND YES, it's still martial arts, not school cafeteria fighting. lol

Mainstream MMA has EMPOWERED us with what No-holds-barred fighting has known underground for hundreds of years... Some martial arts are very honorable, very traditional, very healthy, BUT NOT USEFUL against resisting opponents in a self-defense scenario.

Before his death, BRUCE LEE said, "A man with one year training in boxing and wrestling can beat any kung fu master with 15 years of experience."

He said to absorb what works in combat, and to reject what doesn't from NO MATTER the source... MMA reflects this spirit in a pretty safe environment, whether you're a fan or not.

In Judo class, our philosophy is that everyone gets thrown, ESPECIALLY the kids we get that claim they are TKD black belts from time to time...

Judo works in real life, as do a FEW other traditional martial arts

That's the essence of martial arts... TO BE ABLE TO DEFEND YOURSELF and YOUR LIFE. Thanks for reading.

I swore I was not going to get involved in this.Okay here we go.I'm a traditional kung fu stylist who by and large actually agree with you.BUT.Here is the thing you seem to overlook:MMA is PROFESSIONAL FIGHTING!!That means MMA fighters are PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES!!! Do you really think a good judoka who isn't in pro condition could begin to hold there own in an MMA fight?Do you believe that the average martial artist of any style wants to compete professionally?Yes there are amateur MMA fights.I've attended some and was entertained.Oh forgot to mention traditional stylist who is an MMA fan.That having been said,not everyone wants to go that hard.Or that way.When kung fu men ask me about grappling I suggest Judo and Jujitsu(surprise,I respect all styles) or Shuai Jow and Sambo because for some strange reason they seem to intergrate better with TCMA.Probably because Shuai Jow is kung fu,as for Sambo,no clue but I like the style.MMA's bad rep comes from assholes who go around messing with people for no good reason.They aren't exclusive to MMA but manage to do more damage.The whole MMA is the only way to fight vs. MMA is a tool of the devil debate is old.It needs to stop.I see MMA as a more advanced level of San da.For the people who don't like it or don't want to do it their oppinions should be respected.Everyones opinions should be respected.So endith the sermon.All paths lead to the summit of the mountain.Condemn no one elsess path,just walk your own.

Well, in that case, blow me.

Wow, another one of your fantasies. And here I thought you only fantasized that you knew something about the martial arts. Too bad neither of those fantasies will ever come true.

Are we done?

Not until you admit you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to the martial arts.

Or maybe when I see that I have a new one from kungfucinema.com, I want to check to see if I got a comment from someone whose got something interesting to talk about and who isn't a proverbial rat on my neck like you. Now, will you please leave me alone?!

What's the matter, can't lose a debate gracefully?

Nope.

Because I'm sick of checking my email and seeing that there's another comment from you. Bully and Stalker, tsk tsk tsk.

So. You lack event the minuscule amount of willpower to just ignore that e-mail, huh? No wonder you can't get anywhere with the martial arts. Maybe you might try hypnotherapy?

Good God, do you just not listen to people when they say I'M DONE TALKING WITH YOU!!! I don't know who your alleged teachers are, but all they've done is create a bully and a stalker.

If you're done talking, why do you keep responding? Is it a lack of self control?

Hee hee hee ...

Kent108
(see previous comments, with emphasis on the parts that say, "I'm done debating with you", and "Fuck off".)

Ah, yes, the "f" word. The last refuge of mentally inferior individuals who have clearly lost a debate.

To Kent 108,
I said I was done debating with you. But, if you insist on continuing this, I'd like to know what, pray tell, your martial arts background is since you can't seem to resist criticizing mine site unseen, ans since you're the expert here. I never at any point claimed to be a "master" or "expert", I just said I'm a student, and I wouldn't make such a claim thirty years from now. Nor did I ever utter the statement “I like MMA, but everyone in MMA is a loser who has no skill”. What I said was I love the concept, but I see a deficit in skill in many of the fighters. I love watching Cung Le, Lyoto Machida, Chuck Lidell, Anderson Silva, and George St. Pierre, but they represent the best of MMA to me. Please don't words in my mouth.
I'm honestly getting tired of this verbal foodfight with you; I've studied, I've trained, I've put in the blood sweat and tears for what I love, and I don't need or want you seal of approval. So once again, I'm done with you, and if you haven't got anything interesting to talk about beyond calling me a poser and displaying your Wikipedia-based knowledge of martial arts, then please do everyone a favor and fuck off.

I suppose I should apologize for so obviously infuriating you. But it’s just so fun to engage in a battle of wits with an opponent who is absolutely weaponless.

Your claims of having shed blood, sweat and tears for martial arts are laughable, given your own admission that you have yet to reach even 10 years of total training. Come back when you have, and when you have stuck with any one style for five years or more, and we’ll talk.

Heh.

“I said I was done debating with you. But, if you insist on continuing this, I'd like to know what, pray tell, your martial arts background is since you can't seem to resist criticizing mine site unseen”
Sure. Wing chun: 15 years. Tang Soo Do: five years. One year (give or take a month) each in BJJ, TKD, xingyiquan. Yeah, it’s not much, but it sure beats flitting around from art to art, school to school, learning nothing from each one—as you chose to do.

“Nor did I ever utter the statement ‘I like MMA, but everyone in MMA is a loser who has no skill.’”
No, you just said 90 percent of them were losers and had no skill. In the context of the discussion, the clear and obvious implication was that Jackie Chan, in comparison, was far more skilled than they are.

Jackie Chan is one of the greatest PERFORMERS to grace the screen, especially in the martial arts genre. But when it comes to fighting skill, well, he and I are in agreement that in his prime, he was average at best. And he’s past his prime now, so you do the math …

“I've studied, I've trained, I've put in the blood sweat and tears for what I love”
Doubtful. Or else you’d have a little more respect for others who actually have, by which I mean MMA fighters—both top level and journeyman.

“If you haven't got anything interesting to talk about beyond calling me a poser and displaying your Wikipedia-based knowledge of martial arts, then please do everyone a favor and fuck off.”
Such strong words! Such an adolescent mindset! Such a lack of maturity! Clearly not the hallmarks of anyone who has devote serious effort into martial arts training. You prove my case every time you open your mouth. You’re a dilettante at best.

Mr. Chan is one of the most respected and celebrated on screen martial artists in the world. Respect his opinion. Personally, I like MMA. It gives one the closest real world examples to fighting (as does boxing). Jackie mentions that he doesn't like the cage. I wonder what he would have to say about Dream and Pride FC when rings were used.

And btw, the rules in the UFC are far more restrictive than in 1993, during which the only rules were no biting and no eye gouging.

Kent108
Excuse me? We're debating the merits of MMA and the skills of Jackie Chan, and when I mention that I've spent the better part of the last decade training in martial arts (usually no less than two at once), you actually have the balls to turn this into a personal attack, and call me a a dabbler, a talker, a poser? That criticism, above and beyond being utter BS, pretty much ignores the fact that that's exactly what most MMA fighters do. Take a little of this, a little of that, and some of that. I don't see you criticizing any of them, and Ive criticized their skill level, but I'd never go so far as to call them posers who don't have the commitment to stick to their training. And your claim that Chuan fa and Changquan, the former being Southern Five Animals, the latter being Northern Long Fist...well, I'll leave it at that.
You really have some nerve turning what was supposed to be a discussion of Jackie Chan and MMA into accusing me of being a liar when you don't even know me. I've taking blows to head at 100% from world champions; I know my own background, so I don't have to justify myself to some random idiot online. I never once put down MMA; look at the thread, and you'll see me mention several times that I love the concept, just not the execution.
I'm done arguing with this bone head, guys; you wanna take a shot at any of his statements, just don't mention any firsthand experience you have in martial arts unless your in the mood to be the subject of a witch hunt by someone who's appears to be on kungfucinema.com to pick a fight with somebody.

“Excuse me? We're debating the merits of MMA and the skills of Jackie Chan”
Actually, we’re debating two issues. The first is whether a top MMA fighter displays a level of technical skill, power and explosiveness that can be comparable to Jackie Chan’s. Your contention is that MMA fighters are not good fighters and do not display technical process or skills. This is a false contention that you developed only because you clearly don’t know skill when you see it.

We are also debating whether or not Jackie Chan could hold his own in a MMA match. My contention is no, because Jackie, by his own admission, is not trained as a fighter, but as a performer. He has not developed a FIGHTER’S sense of timing and reflex (as opposed to a performer’s), nor has he developed a fighter’s ability to deal with pain. (We do not dispute that Jackie can take and work through a lot of pain, but that this ability is not of the variety that a fighter can use.) You, however, seem to think he can step into the ring or the cage and not need a hospital afterwards.

“When I mention that I've spent the better part of the last decade training in martial arts (usually no less than two at once), you actually have the balls to turn this into a personal attack, and call me a a dabbler, a talker, a poser?”
Well, the more you talk, the more you reveal yourself to be a poser and a dabbler. “The better part of the last decade”? Guys training for two to three times longer than that in a single art often describe themselves as a beginner. That makes you non-existent as far as martial skill and understanding is concerned. If we’re generous and assume that by “better part of the last decade” you mean nine years (as opposed to six, which is probably closer to the truth), then on average, you have less than three years of experience in any one of those arts. In fact, I’d bet on average, your experience in any of those arts barely tops a year. To use a linguistic analogy, you haven’t even learned the alphabet yet, never mind being able to string a sentence together or write a book.

“That criticism, above and beyond being utter BS, pretty much ignores the fact that that's exactly what most MMA fighters do.”
Georges St Pierre began training at age seven and has black belts in Kyokyushin and Brazillian Jujitsu (BJJ). He is also considered a contender for the Canadian Olympic wrestling team. Anderson Silva began training as a teen and has black belts in Judo and BJJ, as well as extensive training in Muay Thai. Matt Hughes was a Division I All-American wrestler (easily eight or more years of wrestling alone.) BJ Penn is a BJJ black belt and is a boxer whose skills have been praised by none other than Freddy Roach. Fedor Emilianenko was the judo champion in the USSR and world champion in sambo on multiple occasions, and he has the prestigious Master of Sport ranking in in both judo and sambo. And of course, the Gracies who compete in MMA have all devoted dozens of years to their training.

So yes, you’re a dabbler, and top MMA fighters such as the gentlemen I mentioned are NOT. They have committed themselves to their training for many, many years. You, however, have not.

“Take a little of this, a little of that, and some of that. I don't see you criticizing any of them.”
Because you’re a much easier and more appropriate target for criticism. Any mixing and matching top MMA fighters engage in come after they’ve already developed an impressive skill base and foundation in one or two arts.

“I'd never go so far as to call them posers who don't have the commitment to stick to their training.”
Because they’re not posers. You, however, are.

“And your claim that Chuan fa and Changquan, the former being Southern Five Animals, the latter being Northern Long Fist...well, I'll leave it at that.”
Wrong. Chuan fa merely means “fist way” or “striking style.” Shaolin Chuan Fa merely means the Shaolin striking methods as a whole. Chanquan, or long fist, is a hybridized combination of Northern Shaolin methods. In other words, they ARE the same thing.

“I've taking blows to head at 100% from world champions”
I fail to see how getting the crap beaten out of you in any way demonstrates that you have skill.

“I never once put down MMA.”
Yes, because when you say, “I like MMA, but everyone in MMA is a loser who has no skill” that shouldn’t be considered a criticism or insult at all.

“you wanna take a shot at any of his statements, just don't mention any firsthand experience you have in martial arts”
You don’t HAVE any firsthand experience in the martial arts. You have a hole in your wallet where you wasted your money because you didn’t have the guts or patience to stick around at any of those schools and actually LEARN anything.

“Excuse me? We're debating the merits of MMA and the skills of Jackie Chan”
Actually, we’re debating two issues. The first is whether a top MMA fighter displays a level of technical skill, power and explosiveness that can be comparable to Jackie Chan’s. Your contention is that MMA fighters are not good fighters and do not display technical process or skills. This is a false contention that you developed only because you clearly don’t know skill when you see it.
We are also debating whether or not Jackie Chan could hold his own in a MMA match. My contention is no, because Jackie, by his own admission, is not trained as a fighter, but as a performer. He has not developed a FIGHTER’S sense of timing and reflex (as opposed to a performer’s), nor has he developed a fighter’s ability to deal with pain. (We do not dispute that Jackie can take and work through a lot of pain, but that this ability is not of the variety that a fighter can use.)
“When I mention that I've spent the better part of the last decade training in martial arts (usually no less than two at once), you actually have the balls to turn this into a personal attack, and call me a a dabbler, a talker, a poser?”
Well, the more you talk, the more you reveal yourself to be a poser and a dabbler. “The better part of the last decade”? Guys training for two to three times longer than that in a single art often describe themselves as a beginner. That makes you non-existent as far as martial skill and understanding is concerned. If we’re generous and assume that by “better part of the last decade” you mean nine years (as opposed to six), then on average, you have less than three years of experience in any one of those arts. In fact, I’d bet on average, your experience in any of those arts barely tops a year. To use a linguistic analogy, you haven’t even learned the alphabet yet, never mind being able to string a sentence together or write a book.
“That criticism, above and beyond being utter BS, pretty much ignores the fact that that's exactly what most MMA fighters do.”
Georges St Pierre has black belts in Kyokyushin and Brazillian Jujitsu (BJJ). He is also considered a contender for the Canadian Olympic wrestling team. Anderson Silva has black belts in Judo and BJJ and extensive training in Muay Thai. Matt Hughes was a Division I All-American wrestler (easily eight or more years of wrestling alone.) BJ Penn is a BJJ black belt and is a boxer whose skills have been praised by none other than Freddy Roach. Fedor Emilianenko was the judo champion in the USSR and world champion in sambo on multiple occasions, and he has the prestigious Master of Sport ranking in in both judo and sambo. And of course, the Gracies who compete in MMA have all devoted dozens of years to their training.
So yes, you’re a dabbler, and top MMA fighters such as the gentlemen I mentioned are NOT.
“Take a little of this, a little of that, and some of that. I don't see you criticizing any of them.”
Because you’re a much easier and more appropriate target for criticism. Any mixing and matching top MMA fighters engage in come after they’ve already developed an impressive skill base and foundation in one or two arts.
“I'd never go so far as to call them posers who don't have the commitment to stick to their training.”
Because they’re not posers. You, however, are.
“And your claim that Chuan fa and Changquan, the former being Southern Five Animals, the latter being Northern Long Fist...well, I'll leave it at that.”
Wrong. Chuan fa merely means “fist way” or “striking style.” Shaolin Chuan Fa merely means the Shaolin striking methods as a whole. Chanquan, or long fist, is a hybridized combination of Northern Shaolin methods. In other words, they ARE the same thing.

“I've taking blows to head at 100% from world champions”
I fail to see how getting the crap beaten out of you in any way demonstrates that you have skill.
“I never once put down MMA.”
Yes, because when you say, “I like MMA, but everyone in MMA is a loser who has no skill” that shouldn’t be considered a criticism or insult at all.
“you wanna take a shot at any of his statements, just don't mention any firsthand experience you have in martial arts”
You don’t HAVE any firsthand experience in the martial arts. You have a hole in your wallet where you wasted your money because you didn’t have the guts or patience to stick around at any of those schools and actually LEARN anything.

To Yoda
One change I think that should be made to MMA that would make it much more representative of martial arts instead of high school cafeteria fights is to impose to limits on how long fighters are on the ground, just like they do with clinching in boxing. Once the fighters go down, if neither fighter gains a definitive a definitive advantage in a certain amount of time, say somewhere between 30 and 60 seconds, the ref should declare it a stalemate and stand the fighters back up. I think that would make MMA alot better.
On the note of Jackie, Jet, and Donnie's successors, personally, I'm rooting for Scott Adkins, Marko Zaror, Lateef Crowder, Ray Park, Tony Jaa, and possibly John Foo. The interesting thing about Donnie is that he's been around nearly as long as Jackie and Jet, and he's experienced a bit of a renaissance in his career. In my opinion, he reinvented the whole genre with SPL and Flash Point, and he definitely belong to the super-kicker class of martial arts heroes.

Well, I see what you mean about fighting on the ground for a long period of time. I would get mad when fighters go to the ground and do nothing....then i realized that its UFC. UFC is made in America, and with American rules (pride has yellow cards that the ref gives out when u are on the ground too long). America prides on American wrestling. If they had the same rule as Pride, alot of American Wrestling fighters will not do that well against stand up opponents. I'm not saying all American's cant stand-up and fight. Another reason for ground fighting is Jujitsu. Jujitsu is no joke; therefore they need the ground game is necessary. I "think" UFC is going through another generation right now...the generation of Brazilian assassins. Most of them are real martial artist and Dana white knows that. That's why he pits Brazilian fighters against Brazilian fighters all the time.

As for worthy successors to Jet, jackie, and Donnie, the only one that come close is Jaa. "Close" only. Jaa cannot bring the box office numbers like Jet, Jackie or Donnie. There are no Successors in HK, what does that tell you about Traditional Chinese Martial Arts in HK movies? its dying...The magnificent days of Shaw Brothers are gone, Jackie is history( I hate what he has become, is it bc of Hollywood?) Jet has a few films left. The King of HK right now is Donnie whom i respect since his TVB days.

Proving your ignorance once again. The MMA rule change you suggested already exists. It's called the stand-up rule.

you fckin idiots underate jackie chan to the largest extent ever. just cuz jackie chan talks about respect, doesnt mean he can fck u up from any side possible.

I don't like gratuitous violence or brutality even in my beloved movies. So it's safe to say that I don't like MMA either. However, I love martial arts because its essence contains none of the above.

to Kent108
1.) Considering that Gracie fought at a time when the UFC had ALMOST no rules, whereas Hughes fights under a much more organized version of MMA, I don't think you can that direct of a comparison. Gracie lost after the ref stopped the fight, which never happened at all in the UFC's early days. And I never claimed that Gracie had a particularly stunning skill level (at least outside of grappling, as evidenced by his horrific kicking skills.)
2.) I've studied Shaolin Ch'aun fa, Tae Kwon Do, Shotokan, Krav Maga, Aikido, Jujitsu, and Boxing, and my goal is to also add Vovinam, Chang quan, Judo, Ukidokan, and Jeet Kune Do to my arsenal. Way to close my mind there ,and avoid athletic, contact based sparring.
3.) Whatever interval of time Jackie spends between takes doesn't change the fact that he's preparing to engage in an activity that could do him infinitely more damage than any UFC fighter could ever dream to, and he's spent the better part of thirty years doing it. I could count on one hand the number of professional fighters whose careers have lasted half that amount of time.
4.) When have Jackie or Jet EVER claimed they could mop the floor with anyone they run into (although, considering the bitter nature of the training both endured in early childhood under the Chinese government, I'd once again argue that they're quite used to pain at this point.) On the commentary track for "Gorgeous", Jackie talks about how he allowed himself to lose in his first match against Bradley James Allen and how he wanted to die in "Police Story 3", because he had been asking himself at that point, "Why do I always win?" And in his directorial debut, "Born to Defense", Jet spends the majority of that film getting his butt kicked. That's another reason why the UFC is so lacking in honor; every fight is preceded with each fighter talking about how they're the best of the best and how they beat the other guy senseless; Jackie and Jet and others like them embody the spirit of martial arts because they've learned to keep their egos in check and that they're skills don't exist to prove themselves to everyone else; if I lose, I lose, and I'm fine with that; you learn more from losing than you do from winning.

1. Gracie fought Hughes under the same rules. Gracie got schooled. Now, it's no disgrace to be beaten by Matt Hughes, but still. You imply that Gracie lost "only" because the ref stopped the fight. Well, the ref stopped the fight because Matt Hughes was basically raining down punches on the back of Gracie's head, and Gracie had lost the mental capacity to mount a defense, thus endangering his life. Don't think Gracie lost? Because Gracie himself thinks he lost.

Now you say that Gracie is not skilled. But before, you cite him as an example where technique trumps athleticism, size and strength. So which is it? Because you can't keep switching back and forth every time someone calls you on the holes in your logic. Hughes beat Gracie with either superior athleticism or superior technique (possibly both). Choose.

2. You say you've studied six arts. You say you're looking to add another six to your "arsenal." You don't have an arsenal. You have the potential to embarrass six teachers by claiming a connection to them. You're a dabbler. A talker. A poser who has neither the will, commitment or integrity to actually STICK with any one of those styles and train long enough to actually gain any skill. None of your former teachers would have ever let you NEAR any real sparring, because you clearly never earned the privilege and trust from those teachers. Coming from someone putting down MMA and touting the virtues of "traditional" martial arts, your approach to training is one that any traditional teacher or master would never put up with. BTW, you fool, Shaolin Chuan-fa and Changquan are the same style. Also, of the arts you CLAIM to have "trained" (and I'm letting you get away with claiming that you trained a style if you took a month's worth of lessons), only two feature any realistic sparring as part of their training.

3. With all due respect to Jackie's massive cojones, what he does to pull off those stunts and make those movies does not translate in the slightest to fighting ability. The ability to fight and defend intelligently while stunned, seeing stars and wondering just how badly you're hurt? Jackie's NEVER had to do that. So his movie stunt work history is not indicative of his fighting ability. Again, if you'd ever done any real training and hard sparring, you would know that already.

4. Jackie never said he could beat anyone, and Jet routinely protests that he can't fight at all. But you're the one trying to imply that Jackie Chan is a more capable fighter than Matt Hughes. No one's talking about martial virtue here; we're talking raw fighting ability. Matt Hughes has a lot of it. Jackie? Maybe a little. You waste time talking about how Jet Li got beaten up a lot in his movie "Born to Defense"? That was movie. Need I remind you that movies are not real life? Real fights don't look like the ones in the movies. Then you talk about Jackie "letting" one of his stunt guys beat him up in the movie Gorgeous. Jackie wasn't letting a stunt guy beat him up, he was letting the character his stunt guy was playing beat up the character he was playing, in a fictional CHOREOGRAPHED, CONTROLLED environment for the sake of entertainment.

Finally, you imply that mixed martial artists don't keep their egos in check. Well, some do, and some don't. Georges St Pierre, Anderson Silva, and plenty of others are gracious, humble and nice. Do they express confidence before a match? Sure they do. Why would they fight unless they felt confident they could win? Besides, as Muhammad Ali well knew, hyping yourself up before a fight sells tickets. Selling tickets means being able to get more fights in the future. Getting more fights means being able to pay the bills. It's their job. Don't mistake that for their real personalities.

These guys are a lot more humble than "traditional" martial artists like wing chun's Leung Ting and William Cheung; just about EVERY TKD teacher I've ever met; Donnie Yen; and many more.

great in-sigh on Jackie Chan history...I'm pretty sure you know alot about his past, and I trust you did your research well. But, when you stated that "UFC has a lacking in honor", that's when you didn't do your research. Let me tell you why UFC is overtaking Boxing, it thrives on the idea of Loosing. For example, boxing, you need a big record to draw Pay Per View events. Loosing will kill your career. Draws right now for the sport are Pacman(3 loss) and Mayweather(zero loss). Why is UFC growing you ask? In UFC, when you lose, you reinvent yourself. Fighters like Randy(10 losses), Chuck, and BJ have lost many fights. Why are they still fighting? Because they train and improve their flaws. That's why they are still main attraction at events. As for honor, cant blame the tree for a few rotten apples. What sport or movie has two men that just fought each other to the"death" embrace at the end of the fight? And by the way, There is only one jackie...nobody in the world can do what he does. If you can count how many UFC figher's careers have lasted half that amount of Jackie's, why don't you count how many stars that tried to be like Jackie and failed? When Jackie, Jet and Donnie are too old to fight(mind you that they are my favorite action actors, and they are all over 40 now) Who is gonna take over?

In reply to Mr. Wyndham:
As with any Skill, Sport or even Work, the Individual can keep it plain & simple or seek a more Cerebral meaning to it. The Ancients knew this because they were not going to be at War 24/7. Warriors put their Swords or Fists down eventually to raise a Family or build House, maybe even a town here One could Live & Work, All Honourable things. Martial Arts of all types can be used to destroy but it also has a bigger part in History than just Killing.
From the Grappling Arts of Greece to the more recent Krav Maga, there is History if you research.
http://library.thinkquest.org/trio/TTQ07031/history/origin.html

http://www.shaolin.com/historycontent.aspx

http://home.vtmuseum.org/genealogy/chi_sim/chi_sim_history.php

http://www.namyang.co.uk/learn-martial-arts/articles/origins-of-shaolin-martial-arts.php

Jackie needs to see the movie Redbelt. To me, probably one of the best true martial arts films in the last ten years. The film is all about honor. Despite Jackie's fame and achievements in film, I can't really point to one of his projects that approaches Redbelts scope in terms of respect toward martial arts.

in reply to RF...See what i mean when people are talking out of their asses? When the elbow comes down to the eye socket...its illegal buddy. Can't do that. U must be one of those poeple who watched MMA when it was in 1999. If u understand both sides, then talk. If you don't, you sound ignorant. Like hitting the elbow in the eye. LMFAO

But it happens don't it? eye injuries?
Yes its my human right to speak freely you know, or do you prefer nodding dolls who agree on everything?
The whole consept should be banned had it been up to me. ask a not bought doctor what he think about it...!
neither way it's boring to watch. and there is alot of people who think the same. I rather see staged fighting not wrestling

its kind of Ironic because The whole world is doing what China and Japan use to do back in the days. Well, Japan is still in the game. Going to dojo's to challenge great masters. The best fighters are always humble. Take Fedor, Never been defeated, except for a cut on his head that was called off by the ref. He is humble as hell. Asian people are forgetting their roots. If you watch MMA closely, there are dojos fighting dojos in the sport. Matt Hughs team, Nogera's team, its reminiscent of students getting defeated and the master or the brother has to step in and declare their arts more superior by defeating the opponent who defeated their brother or student. When Hughs defeated one of the Gracie, he said it was the "Brazillian Jujitsu that lead him to victory. Hugh's rejected the comment and said it was American wrestling. So there is a sense of pride to what you "use" and where your "from". AKa northern fist or southern style. Brazil is the leader right now with super fighters. Here in Orange County California, all the Asians are into MMA. The rest of the world should catch on. what happened to the Ip man, or Huo Yuanjia spirit? Asia is making films about the pass while the world is living in it. lol

Me personally don't find it entertaining. I rather watch dolphins jumping in the water.