UPDATE: Dragon Dynasty’s ‘Supercop’

sorry man but i see no difference between DD and IVL with HEROES and ONE ARMED and i check maybe 20 times. and if you question my visual assimilation process it's a clear 20/20. but i'm gonna just let this futility end in neutrality. we're two different people is the true logic.

i don't believe in absolutes but what you say is plausible enough. although i'll have to confirm this myself since i own both ivl and dragon dynasty versions of 36th, one armed, and heroes of the east and the fact i have no life. if you're right, i'll suck you phallus.... sorry... :( and BCI IS GOOD?? too bad they are defunct.

No, the restorations themselves are OK. Its because, for whatever reason, Celestial shortchanges some of their customers by providing inferior PAL-NTSC masters, where the incompatible speeds produce pernament ghosting on the VIDEO, not the film master

This is not the case with the Dragon Dynasty, Media Blasters and BCI Shaws, which look far superior because they were properly corrected to NTSC speed

or maybe a paradox has consumed us all and we are not focusing on what could be the potential cause of the devoid quality of these SHAW films. maybe the celestrial remasterings themselves are horrible which caused the movies to have this ghosting and this "supossive" interlaced displacement (whatever it maybe). Cuz if all the DVD releases of the Shaw films are nefarious, then perhaps we are vituperating the wrong people. cuz everyone saying everything sucks. it's utterly cataclymic.
when remastering a dilapidated film, color and texture is needed to abate and or succumb any deterioration like scratches and so forth. so maybe it's not the fault of usa dvd distributors. maybe it's the fault of celestrial for giving us horrible remasters.
i'm not arguing right or wrong cuz i don't deal in idealism. only theory and logic matter. do you think this is appropriote (misspelled i think) :)

Well you and me are two different people. I think the Image DVDs for the Shaws suck

ghosting does make sense but i'm still non-compliant towards the idea that image is poor quality

"In fact the end song on the Cantonese track (sung by Jackie Chan) had to be slowed down to fit in the added US credits for editors and rap music added to the Dimension version."

That's disgraceful.

And as for interlaced extras - well, these days, i'm just grateful that they do the film right, which many companies seem unable to do

Well, I reccomend the Media Blasters titles (though The Master is non-anamorphic), the BCI and the Dragon Dynastys, for at least being better than the HK DVDs and in some cases very good dvds.

Regarding Shaw releases around the world that include English options:

Image: No re-translation (they at least check them so they make sense) and poor video quality (ghosting, interlacing) caused by improper conversions and sometimes made worse when time-stretched.

WellGoUSA: No effort made on the sub-par subtitles, no mono and shitty PAL>NTSC jobs causing ghosting and interlacing again.

Dragon Dynasty: Sub-par subtitles and sometimes interlaced extras.

Media Blasters: Subtitles could perhaps improve a little, but some interlacing problems on the extras.

BCI: I haven't seen their latest stuff for myself yet, but it's seemingly OK. Just a few issues with the way the interviews are shot. Maybe dual-layer would be better.

Momentum Asia: Non-anamorphic.

IVL/Deltamac/United Home Entertainment: Same PAL>NTSC bullshit with sub-par subtitles and remixes for many.

MIB: Non-anamorphic for some titles and seemingly sub-par subtitles.

Siren: Sub-par subtitles and sometimes interlaced content.

what dvd company would you recommend who puts out the Celestrial Shaw stuff to be good?

@Smareng, sorry, but no it is the Dimension version. The distributor sent me a review copy and I just finished writing the review. The Cantonese sound is added to the Dimension cut. In fact the end song on the Cantonese track (sung by Jackie Chan) had to be slowed down to fit in the added US credits for editors and rap music added to the Dimension version. At least the subtitles do not follow the horrid English dubbing, but rather the actual words spoken in Cantonese (unless you are using the subtitles for the hearing impaired). No OD'ing hookers and no restaurant back room full of animals (where PETA stands for 'People Eating Tasty Animals')

I will give them credit for showing an extra feature where Jackie Chan gets to voice his displeasure at the cuts saying his:
"I don't understand....We spent two years to put everything together. We edit every single day, every night. Then we hire the music, where we should put the music, when the music stops. We do the best we can..... Suddenly America bought it. They change the music, they change the editing!" Jackie goes on to say, "They only spend ten days or one week to look at the movie, then they automatically know, they wanna change the cut, they wanna change the music, they wanna change this, they wanna change that....What? I spent two years or so every day. They think they're the best...Ok I don't want to stop them from making money. As long as the American audiences like it, as long as the bosses like it. But you ask me..I don't like it."

I dislike the IVL shaws for the poor standards conversions, but I accept not everyone sees those flaws

it appears a conflict is manifesting so let's end it with i think they are wonderous and you think they're nefarious. by the way, i do own an all region dvd player and have lots of ivl stuff. i see no problems with the tranfers.

Image did horrible PAL-NTSC transfers that look even worse then the HK DVDs. Even though there are many fine restorations of HK movie classics, many of the DVDs do not do them justice

image isn't poor quality. the only dvd release i can think of they screwed up on is bells of death involving ratio aspect intricacies. other than that they been legit. well go usa is ?able on the other hand. like heroic ones having no mono for mandarin and two champions of shaolin having severe echo sounds on fight scenes but they were ok. go to hkflix.com to get the list of these movies that are currently out

So there is no reason I can see to make excuses for Dragon Dynasty.

Well i tend to go by what we know exists and what is reasonable to expect. The HK DVDs of Supercop have always been the longer cut, although they suffer from poor picture and out of sync audio, they are not especially good either. Since DD has connections with Fortune Star, I fail to see why they didn't use the HD master of the longer version

I recall reading that it's not uncommon for Hong Kong action movies to be released in cut form even in theatres in Hong Kong, considering that they may've been initially released as a longer version in Taiwan; should we now demand only the longer Taiwan versions on dvd? I assume a company like DD releases the most complete versions of their films they could get their hands on, whatever they have the rights to.

Its the principle. Why should I pay for something that isn't the complete film? You don't pay for a car missing its sunroof cover

Oh, come on! Did you notice the "non-action" part when referring to the cut 10 minutes. It's not a studio recut butcher job, like "Fearless"
or missing 30 min that explains how the hero and villian grew up together in an orphanage, for instance.
Are you really gonna miss the comedic stylings of the Jackie Chan Stunt Team, or HK tv stars emoting for the big screen.
Unless it's a 10 minute nude scene w/ Michelle, then I'm really pissed!!!!

Image and Well Go are poor quality too when it comes to releasing HK films.

Dragon Dynasty, and formerly HKL, never listened to fan criticism much. They are mostly incompetent

I'm not familiar with Image Entertainment or Well Go USA; what titles of theirs' would you recommend checking out? Do you consider their stuff superior to DD's because their titles are uncut & in the original release language or what? What makes them better?

to bruce:

TAI SENG
IMAGE ENTERTAINMENT
TOKYO SHOCK (sort of)
BCI (NOW DEFUNCT)
WELL GO USA

Image is the best as far as i'm concerned. i hate extra content. i don't give a fuck about these egotistical parasitic ass spelunkers point of views and how they made their insignificant movie. the movie is what counts!!!! DD can choke on their nefarious bile of extra content. i've never seen spercop uncut but i don't care as long as the chinese language is intact, my phallic structure is concreate.

well this is certainly fascist. upping the ante to 24.95 and not providing the additional bonus footage of the film. although i have seen the Dimension version, so it relatively doesn't matter to me as long as the all the action shown in the original film is still intact. otherwise, maniacal malevolence will certainly pervade the darkest corners of the mind; not just mine, by the way.

I don't get all this bitching about the quality of Dragon Dynasty's product. What other company are you comparing their work with? What other company distributing Hong Kong movies to the home video audience in the U.S. (or elsewhere, for that matter) has done a better job overall? Has any company in the U.S. come close to putting as much into Hong Kong movie dvds as DD has? Not that I'm aware of. I'm not saying DD is perfect but it seems to me they've tried to be by fans for fans, working with whatever material is available to them (while simultaneously having to worry about what releases will be profitable).
If you guys really feel such a need to gripe I hope you're also griping directly to DD at their website, where your complaints might actually be productive.
As for the scenes that were cut from Police Story 3: Supercop, I have a vhs copy of the uncut version; as I recall nothing of particular interest or importance was cut out for the U.S. edit... of course, the same can't be said for Miramax's cut (butchering?) of Armor of God 2: Operation Condor, that one deserved major dissent.

DD has now lost major brownie points, first going with an edited version, and now jacking up the price. if i do get this, it will be when it becomes severely discounted. i let the small fist of legend edits slip by, but not this long of a cut...

Higher price but less movie, I'll stick with my HK version of this one.

They need to realase Crippled Avengers, Eight Diagram Pole Fighter, Five Venoms....

DD at least offers some effort and sincerity in getting new extras and a new commentary track.

"DavidB Jan 3rd, 2009 at 11:20 pm

Rhythm-X,
You took my comment out of context. I said “People need to stop complaining about the so-called quality of Dragon Dynasty releases. If you don’t like them don’t buy them.”

Theres no sense complaining about something that you can’t control. If you don’t like the Dragon Dynasty releases forget about them and move on. If you want The Rebel or Dog Bite Dog on dvd buy a different version. If you want City of Violence or Fatal Contact on dvd buy a different version. O’ Wait you can’t, Can you? There is no other version of these movies on Dvd. Dragon Dynasty is the only label to put them out on Dvd."

The only method of control I have is to not buy the releases AND to be vocal about why. If I simply refuse to buy them and keep my mouth shut about it, then the appearance is simply a lack of demand. This is misleading as I'd love to buy their releases... if they were only worth buying. Any business that's worth a damn (i.e. definitely not these guys) would want to know why the people who actually want to buy their product are so hesitant about doing so - and they'd do everything in their power to fix it, because it's common freaking sense to do so. People who care enough to complain about the quality of the releases would spend more money on them than people who don't - or else they wouldn't be complaining in the first place. And once they spent money and didn't feel ripped off, they'd recommend the product to others, generating goodwill and solid word of mouth, leading to more sales over time. It isn't a foolproof road to success, but it works better than pissing off the people most likely to buy your stuff in favor of ineffectual attempts to appeal to a mainstream audience that's not remotely interested in what you're selling. The only way mainstream audiences will be interested is if there's a lot of good word of mouth... which will be pretty elusive once they've pissed off the core fan base enough. I can't figure out what they're trying to accomplish. It seems so simple - make your loyal customers happy and you accumulate additional customers with positive word of mouth. Make your loyal customers unhappy and you end up with fewer loyal customers, who warn their friends about your lame-ass ways. Dragon Dynasty's priorities are horribly screwed and everyone loses in the end. Oh, well, just more money that I'll spend on Discotek releases.

Umm, there are other DVDs overseas of those films

I don't care if DD is the "only" distributor. They screw up badly. My response? I won't buy em. There are plenty of good dvds from other companies more deserving of my money

Rhythm-X,
You took my comment out of context. I said "People need to stop complaining about the so-called quality of Dragon Dynasty releases. If you don’t like them don’t buy them."

Theres no sense complaining about something that you can't control. If you don't like the Dragon Dynasty releases forget about them and move on. If you want The Rebel or Dog Bite Dog on dvd buy a different version. If you want City of Violence or Fatal Contact on dvd buy a different version. O' Wait you can't, Can you? There is no other version of these movies on Dvd. Dragon Dynasty is the only label to put them out on Dvd.

So called quality is right!

"DavidB Dec 21st, 2008 at 11:52 pm

People need to stop complaining about the so-called quality of Dragon Dynasty releases."

Or what? What happens if people don't stop complaining? Is it the complaining that's making them screw up release after release after release? Inquiring minds want to know.

God, how stupid can Dragon Dynasty get?

I just got the review copy (will be reviewed in an upcoming Screen Power Magazine issue) It's the US cut which in the commentary track, Bey Logan actually defends and says "it works". Meanwhile in the Jackie Chan interview, Chan complains that having a guy edit it after viewing once it bothers him quite a lot, especially since he's worked on the film and spent many many hours perfecting it in the editing room himself for the original version.

People need to stop complaining about the so-called quality of Dragon Dynasty releases. If you don't like them don't buy them. Most of us really enjoy them.
Most of the time Dragon Dynasty gives us special features that we can't get on other releases of these films. Dragon Dynasty has also released films that would not have been released here in the U.S. any other way.
I'm tired of having to search online to buy films that aren't available in U.S. Stores. I'm still waiting for The Mad Detective, Three Kingdoms, Chocolate, and The Warlords in the U.S.

I just hope they keep Jackie's singing in the end credits.

The film is great in its original form and there has never been any reason to cut it in the first place.

My old english dub vhs from MIHK (I believe) is also 91 min. so if there is some extra footage outside of that, then I've never seen it!

and even JC Stunt Team member Ken Lo.

This part alone makes this movie worthy of a purchase. I'll also like the interviews with Tong, Yeoh (favorite actress) and Jackie Chan (favorite actor)

They are just shooting themselfs in the foot not releasing the fully UNCUT version.

"This “release the movie exactly the way I want it or not at all” mentality made some semblance sense back in the days when all we could get were dubbed, extra-less versions of these films, but now in the face of getting the original language and decent special features, whining about 10 minutes of non-action footage just feels rather petty, pointless and short-sighted.

I’m not saying I’d rather have my movies cut than uncut, but at least Dragon Dynasty is making a decent enough effort that I’m not throwing a hissy fit and wishing nothing but ill will for the company that’s given us a prompt region 1 edition of “The Rebel” and an original-language edition of “Fist of Legend” with English subtitles.

Anyway, I’m well aware that this post is almost as pointless as the “DIE DRAGON DYNASTY, DIE” comments. Some people will buy this DVD, and some other people won’t. Sales are what will ultimately determine the fate of DD, and at the end of the day all the complaining in the world won’t really accomplish anything besides making it painfully obvious that we’ve got a little too much time on our hands."

So, in short, "Shut up, be happy."

If it were left to the likes of you we'd still be getting quality releases like Dimension used to give us. Not that you'd notice either way, you've already demonstrated total indifference to the films actually being presented in complete versions. Dragon Dynasty is useless - who cares if they're loading the discs down with special features if they can't bother to get the movies right? That's not a "decent enough effort", it's an embarrassingly misguided use of time and resources. They still, after all these years, don't get it. They need to go away and stay there, because they suck at what they claim they were created to do. Not screwing up the occasional THE REBEL or SEVEN SWORDS is the broken clock being right twice a day.

People posting long screeds on the Internet shouldn't complain about other people having too much time on their hands. Shouldn't you be at the mall buying defective Dragon Dynasty discs? It's a dirty job, someone's got to do it.

bad news

dragon dynasty get a grip!!

Doubleh wrote:

"Yeah, the company releasing affordable Region 1 releases of great Asian films needs to go to out of business."

Amen.

This "release the movie exactly the way I want it or not at all" mentality made some semblance sense back in the days when all we could get were dubbed, extra-less versions of these films, but now in the face of getting the original language and decent special features, whining about 10 minutes of non-action footage just feels rather petty, pointless and short-sighted.

I'm not saying I'd rather have my movies cut than uncut, but at least Dragon Dynasty is making a decent enough effort that I'm not throwing a hissy fit and wishing nothing but ill will for the company that's given us a prompt region 1 edition of "The Rebel" and an original-language edition of "Fist of Legend" with English subtitles.

Anyway, I'm well aware that this post is almost as pointless as the "DIE DRAGON DYNASTY, DIE" comments. Some people will buy this DVD, and some other people won't. Sales are what will ultimately determine the fate of DD, and at the end of the day all the complaining in the world won't really accomplish anything besides making it painfully obvious that we've got a little too much time on our hands.

For the record, I'm probably going to buy this for the special features. I already have the Chinese Police Story box set, but I don't really give a rip about owning multiple versions.

Hi there

I think we should note that there is a posibility that this could in fact be the original HK version. My reasoning being that while the Miramax cut runs at 90:38 (appx 91 minutes) The original is in fact only 1:16 longer at 91:54.

There are 2 reasons for this:

-The Miramax version added several minutes of credits both at the beginning and end.
-There is in actuality only about 5-6 minutes missing not 10. (This is a guesstimate btw).

Either way, both versions roughly round off to 91 minutes. And lets not forget, Fortune star has never yet failed to provide an uncut print (or at least deleted scenes) to either fox or dragon dynasty.

So lets not panic, the procrastinating white police cheif, endangered cooked animals, and smack-shooting hookers may yet see the light of day on this disc.

cheers!

Smareng

"Yeah, the company releasing affordable Region 1 releases of great Asian films needs to go to out of business."

Ideally, after they folded, their catalog would be scattered fairly quickly to a handful of smaller companies who actually care about producing a quality product. Dragon Dynasty pretends to care about producing a quality product (for it is good PR to care about such things), but clearly doesn't actually give that much of a damn. Remember that MY YOUNG AUNTIE recall to fix the issue of it being in the wrong language? Me neither. Now a cut SUPERCOP? Seriously, it is to laugh.

"The running time is 91 minutes, the same as the Weinstein’s previous Dimension Films release, suggesting that their version may be missing the same 10 minutes of non-action footage that appears in the Hong Kong print."

GOD DAMNIT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. I freaking want this thing for the interviews too.

Yeah, the company releasing affordable Region 1 releases of great Asian films needs to go to out of business.

Boy I hope these early specs are wrong. DD's press releases are usually unreliable because they almost always never match up with the actual product! If it is indeed cut, count me out.